VERY BEGINNING! How do I start the 2nd ring?

[judijo]

Maybe I am doing the first ring wrong. I dunno. I actually woke up during the night last night trying to work out the dynamics in my head...My head does not work at 2AM. ;)

Anyway, I can get a ring. I can get a chain. Then what? I saw the one video on YouTube and I can't see how that 2nd ring is started. I try to pull through the 2nd set of DS's, but it doesn't go into a ring. Am I using the wrong string/yarn/thread (needle eye side versus the "ball" side)? :ermm:

When I shuttle tatted, the shuttle thread was the "ring thread" and the ball thread was the "chain thread".

whaa! How do I get that 2nd ring started? :cry:

Thanks for your help.

[Josie Passell]

I wish I could help but I have not got as far as you with needle tatting.:sad: It took me ages to make the first ring.:cry:but I am sure a needle tatter will be able to help you. Goodluck.
best wishes
Josie

[IcePrincess]

When needle tatting you always use the "ball thread" to form all the stitches. It does not matter if you are forming a chain or a ring. The one attached to the needle always is inside the stitches.

For forming the first ring, you put the needle through the loop between stitches and needle to finish, right? For the chain you didn't put the needle through that loop. For the 2nd ring, you again have to put your needle through the loop between stitches and needle-end before closing.
I hope you could understand what I mean...

There is no special start - you always start the same, whether you are doing a ring or a chain in needle tatting.

[judijo]

Ok. Thanks so much for the clarification. Yup i am doing it wrong. Boo. I guess i will shell out the 25 bucks for the book if i want to continue.

Thanks again.

[Judy]

Needle tatter, right? The descriptions by IcePrincess were correct. On the needle side you need only enough thread to circulate around through the center -- about once around your finger for each ring and chain unless they're very long. You don't need to cut the thread off the ball. (Shuttle tatters call it continuous thread method). Watch for tangles as you pull the needle and thread through. Its because the thread gets pinched that it has a tendency to try to unwind as its pulled... leaving extra twists in the loop. Put the needle through the loop for rings. (and not, for chains). Not too much to change, just don't let that loop zip down to nothing unless you want a chain.

[Vivaudiss]

DOn't feel bad I destroyed LOTS of thread the first few needle tatting attempts. I didn't get that part either!!!! The book didn't say tat only w/ the ball thread. It assumed I knew that part!!!! Never assume, always explain :) Once you know that part the only other hard part is remembering to run the needle back through the thread before you close the ring or you get another chain :(

[judijo]

Once you know that part the only other hard part is remembering to run the needle back through the thread before you close the ring or you get another chain :(

Run the needle back...that is where I am lost. I tried to find a book on needle tatting @ the library then at Barnes/Noble, to no avail. Poo. :furious:

I swear, if I ever get the hang of this, I will make a very clear video, explaining exactly where I got hung up so noone has this problem again! (puts on her Scarlett Ohara voice, ala "As God as my witness, I will never go hungry again!") heh

[carolivy]

You can find a very wonderful Needle Tatting Tutorial here: http://needletatting.proboards.com/index.cgi? It is another tatting forum (mostly devoted to Needle Tatting, so you will have to join to see the images, but it is well worth it. Roger is great too if you have any questions!

[Ridgewoman]

Run the needle back...that is where I am lost. I tried to find a book on needle tatting @ the library then at Barnes/Noble, to no avail. Poo. :furious:

I swear, if I ever get the hang of this, I will make a very clear video, explaining exactly where I got hung up so noone has this problem again! (puts on her Scarlett Ohara voice, ala "As God as my witness, I will never go hungry again!") heh

hhtatting.com has needle books by Barbara Foster.

[BlueDode]

judijo:

Are you a shuttle tatter now picking up needle tatting?
If so, my commentary will make some sense: if not, it won't, so ignore it.

There's two ways to form rings with needle tatting.
Using Barbara Foster's terminology, there are two methods:

1. Ring and Thread method
2. Ring and Chain method

1. Ring and Thread method: result is similar to rings only tatting. Mignonette tatting is done this way. There are NO chains, just short lengths of thread separting the rings. This method is done with the needle thread only: there is no ball thread. The needle thread is cut off the ball before tatting starts.

2. Ring and Chain method: This method involves making "mock rings: in shuttle tatting terms. Rings are made with the needle thread as the core thread; double stitches are formed usng the ball thread. Rings are formed by running the needle through the loop of needle thread between the ring in process and the previous ring (or chain) BEFORE pulling the needle all the way through the double stitches.

3. Rings from 1; chains from 2;

And, it is possible to combine the two methods: form rings using the "Ring and Thread" method (use only the needle thread); use the ball thread to make the double stitches on the core/needle thread. This method has a result just like shuttle tatting. If you use two colors of thread, one for the ball and one for the shuttle, rings will be the color of the needle thread, and chains the color of the ball thread.

On the proverbial "tangles" of the needle thread: in my experience, high twist tatting thread and silver/gold/monofilament wrapped threads can tangle in the most maddening ways sometimes. Crochet cotton (lower twist than tattng thread) and yarn (lower twist as well) tend to behave and not tangle up with needle tatting.

I found Barbara Foster's tatting book to be a great reference especially to bring to mind methods of joining new threads: her book is a handy reference on basic needle tatting methods.

Good luck with your tatting!

[judijo]

God and His angels are sprinkling "good vibe" dust on you all.

BlueDode...your commentary did make sense. Thanks.

After reading the "running the needle through" step, I went back to the pictoral tutorials and there it was! Ah HAH! There IS a loop there!!! I will be danged! I went home and tried it and almost punctured my SleepNumber (air) bed jumping up and down! Whoo hoo!

I will refer to all your links and get Ms. Foster's book as a reference (DH can get it for a Christmas gift for me.)

As soon as I am relatively practiced, I will, as promised, make a short vid of that step so the next beginner will know that is the difference.

Thanks to all, once again! (((HUGS))).

[patrice]

Although I agree with BlueDode-I don't think it is as confusing as it sounds.The easiest way to aquire the skills-is to learn them one at a time-then figure out the difference.Having every option shown to you at ounce is overwhelming.
If you are learning to make rings and chains at the same time-that is one thing.If you want to leave a thread between rings-that is a different thing,and you need to go about each in different ways.
Try following a simple pattern(6 or 8 rings and chains joined to make a large ring-for example)Try another pattern...get familiar with tatting...then you will begin to understand what each thing does-or doesn't do.As you get comfortable with your own tatting-you will want to learn more..and more,and you will understand more.Suddenly-what was confusing is clear.Don't jump ahead of your abilities,but don't be discouraged,it all becomes clear pretty quickly.I hate to say it-but practice works best.Since tatting is a slow process,practice can be long and tedious-it is so worth it.When you figure it out-you know..it's worth it.

[Judith Connors]

Judijo,
Most of the rings in needle tatting are mock rings, i.e. they are chains drawn up to form rings.

However, there is also a true ring (as in shuttle tatting) known as a 'roselle'. (Named by Dan Rusch-Fischer.) It is made by starting at the end of a thread in the eye of the needle. Place the hitches on your needle as usual, but then draw the needle thread through its own hitches. Close the ring as in shuttle tatting. This form of needle tatting does not include chains.
Judith.

[Green Gal]

From the piles of thread and little "trials' of every step all over the house it would seem like Ive been needle tatting for ages. But I swtill get confused. Just when I thought I had figured out the 'working from the ball' and the 'cut thread' and which to use when. Lo and behold I come across a pattern that seems to need both. Just to make sure I tried it both ways and nup it just doesnt work. So I just fudged it and put in chains where there werent any and it seems to work.

[Green Gal]

oops "still" not swtill