learning to shuttle tat after learning to needle tat

[Tattin' Kat]

I'm a needle tatter, but I'm hoping to also learn to shuttle tat as well. Are there any of you who learned to shuttle tat after learning to needle tat? Any advice?

[PattyD]

Actually, I am going the other way around. I learned to tat when I was 11, which time is now lost in the mists of time. Shuttle tatting is different from needle tatting in many respects of the process, but the product is .....tatting. The knot does not care how it is made.

You may have an easier time of mastering the shuttle method if you start with finger tatting. Just you, your fingers and a thread so you can learn how the thread moves without having to wrestle the shuttle itself. And use the biggest thread you have so you can see what you are doing.

[xstchntat]

I learned needle tatting long ago , but just started shuttle tatting in Jan of this year. I had the hardest time with the flip of the knot but watched several of the videos available on you tube and it only took a short while. I do both just as easy now. If you needle tat you already have the basics of how things go together, so that does not present as much of a problem, at least it didn't to me LOL.

[Lynn]

I've no advice, but lots of encouragement. I never could get the needle, but maybe I just didn't try long enough. Once you can do both, you can join the sparse ranks of ambitatterous tatters.

[gahorsley]

i think needle tatting would be great, except.....when I lose a shuttle in my chair, it doesn't really matter. Needles, now that would pose a diffeent problem the way I see it. Since my sweet husband wasn't too fond of finding a sewing needle in the carpet end up in his foot, I can't imagine he would be too happy for tatting needles to end up in his bottom!:mad:

[IcePrincess]

The nice thing about tatting needles is that they're not sharp. I never managed to pierce one of them anywhere except in a ball of thread.

My advice would be to see the two as completely independent ways of achieving the same result. I also started with shuttle tatting (which I feel way more comfortable with!) and then learned to use the needle.

My experience is that only the basic construction of the patterns and the look of the knots are the same.
Everything else is different. It's a little like with filet crochet and "true" filet - looks (in this case more or less) the same, but the means of arriving there are completely different.
I think it's easier if you learn shuttle tatting simply by learning shuttle tatting. What helps is that you have a feeling of when the work must be reversed, that's the same, but as for everything else - just imagine you've never done something like it.

[waterdew]

I learnt how to needle tat first. I am now learning shuttle tatting so I can undertand both and have the both techniques available to use as and when.

What I am finding is that I have to understand what and why I am doing a method (ie, split rings, rw, etc) thoroughly with needle tatting before I can translate it to the shuttle - so it is developing a better understanding of what the thread is doing and why it is doing it and why something does/doesn't work - basically the mechanisms of it. If I don't understand it with needle then I have a mental block trying to achieve the same thing on shuttle. It is the way my brain is wired up I suppose!

I do think shuttle is very different from needle and I have to admit I do prefer needle much better - but I suspect this is because I am going much too slow with the shuttle for my liking whereas I am at a good speed with the needle. One aspect I especially like about needle is that you can undo your work far easier than I find I can with shuttle work (as you can tell, I have made plenty of mistakes in the past and probably in the future too!). However, I am determined to carry on and just practice, practice, practice to get up to speed.

I don't know why but I see shuttle tatting as something I would use more for fine delicate threads/work and have used much thinner thread learning on a shuttle than I have ever used in needle tatting.

Gosh - that was interesting for me, I didn't realise half of that until I put it down on screen!

BTW what helped me the most when I first learnt shuttle tatting was to learn how to do a chain first, then to learn how to do the ring. I tried to do a ring first but it stumped me then on how I created a chain afterwards. It didn't seem to naturally flow for me because of the way you have to hold the thread.

Do let us know how you go on with the shuttle Tattin' Kat, I will be interested in how you find it compared to needle tatting.

[Tattin' Kat]

Thanks for the advice all. Now I just need to find some time!! Any advice on finding that :)

[Marty]

Thanks for the advice all. Now I just need to find some time!! Any advice on finding that :)

Finding it is really difficult -- you've got to steal it instead. I've been stealing tatting time from sleep time lately. Not the best idea. Steal it from cleaning time instead (Waterdew -- take particular note here, I've seen your status!).

[waterdew]

Hehehe! Why do you think I had to so much cleaning yesterday...

[d'tatter]

Actually, I am going the other way around. I learned to tat when I was 11, which time is now lost in the mists of time. Shuttle tatting is different from needle tatting in many respects of the process, but the product is .....tatting. The knot does not care how it is made.

You may have an easier time of mastering the shuttle method if you start with finger tatting. Just you, your fingers and a thread so you can learn how the thread moves without having to wrestle the shuttle itself. And use the biggest thread you have so you can see what you are doing.

Is finger tatting something one might actually find instructions for somewhere? How does it work exactly?

[PattyD]

Finger Tatting is pretty much the same as shuttle tatting as far as position of the hands and the way the thread is wrapped around the left hand for rings and chains. What finger tatting does for beginners is to leave the tool out (the shuttle) and allows the tatter to concentrate on just moving the thread. Finger tatting is a handy skill to have because if you get in a tight place and can't use the shuttle for some reason, you can then just confidently use your fingers to complete the necessary stitches. Sometimes you can just see what is going on better and since theoretically you know how to use your hands and fingers, Finger Tatting can help when trying to figure out something you can't quite see happening.

Finger Tatting a Chain

The assumption here is that the core thread is not longer than your arm. I form a loop with the core thread and use the doubled thread to form the DS for the chain. Doubling the core thread gives it more body and makes it easier to work with. Be sure to pull the end of the core thread out of the DS before you tighten up the DS.

Finger Tatting a Ring

Wrap the working thread around the left hand as usual. In the same way as Finger Tatting a Chain, make a loop in the core thread and use the doubled thread to form the DS for the ring.

[d'tatter]

I bought a book from Amazon called "Learn to Tat" by Janette Baker. There are some pattern glitches in the book itself, but the DVD that comes with it was invaluable. My sister thought I was nuts watching a video of someone tatting, but it worked. Start out using relatively thick thread in a light color so you can see what you're doing and be patient. I've kept needle tatting while learning to shuttle tat to keep myself from being discouraged.

[tatknot]

clesliea has posted a link to a finger tatting video that she made. It is in this thread (http://www.intatters.com/showthread.php?2669-Finger-Tatting-Video)

[BlueDode]

Tattin' Kat:

Shuttle tatting vs needle tatting: two sides of the same coin, separated by a gulf of finger fiddling and technish talk...

If you know one, you are halfway up the learning curve on the other: you know what the end result is, you just learn another way to get there.

From the needle tatter's point of view, standard shuttle tatting is like needle tatting when making chains: but when making rings, use the "Ring and Thread" method of making rings, as described by Barbara Foster, instead of the "Ring and Chain" method for making rings. If you have one color of thread used as "the ball" thread and another color used as "the needle" thread, chains will be the color of the ball thread and rings will be the color of the needle thread -- two color tatting.

From the shuttle tatter's point of view, needle tatting using "Ring and Chain" method is equivalent in structure to shuttle tatting Mock-Rings and Chains, give or take a shoelace trick (shoelace trick: the knot needle tatters tie when reversing work between rings and chains).

There is a (surmountable) gulf of terminology and technique, and you may need to figure this stuff out before you can apply what you know.

BTW: I agree with waterdew: I work with finer threads when shuttle tatting and thicker ones when needle tatting: that said, as in most things, it is a matter of taste.

Good luck, and enjoy the challenge!