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View Full Version : Tournhout Lace - has anyone heard about this lace before?



waterdew
15-07-2010, 08:44 AM
Can anyone help me with this search for information on Tournhout Lace?

Some time ago, a friend of mine was told about it and that there was a Dutch book in existence about it. He had never heard of it before and wanted to learn some more but hasn't been able to get any information either from books or the internet.

He never got to see the lady again that originally spoke about it and has been searching ever since. Does anyone out there know anything about it, about the book (if it even exists), whether it is a dutch method...anything about Tournhout Lace?

carolivy
15-07-2010, 11:01 AM
This is the only thing I gound about Tournhout: http://encyclopedia.farlex.com/Tournhout It is a City that produces lace (among other things)

waterdew
15-07-2010, 02:33 PM
Thanks Carolivy for the link - it makes sense that it is a place, we just had the spelling wrong. I've just done a search on "Turnhout" and found a website with a dutch book listed on it (I think this is what he was after).

It lists so many different types of lace, I never realised there were that many. (Sorry, I can image the amount of eye ball rolling to that comment, but I've only just found out about tatting and I now feel like a child in a sweet shop being overwhelmed with the choice and not knowing what to grab first.)

I thought the website it may be of use so here is the link: http://www.vansciverbobbinlace.com/1Books.html

kimkotary
15-07-2010, 03:07 PM
Holly has some great stuff. You might look at http://www.lacis.com/

Raelara
15-07-2010, 03:31 PM
Looks like it is a specific variety of bobbin lace: http://www.lace-tapestries.com/en/paris-lace-antwerp-bobbin-lace-turnhout-bobbin-lace-antique-lace.htm

carolivy
15-07-2010, 03:45 PM
I found this one: http://www.adin.be/en/2ndPage.asp?dtn=03163-3549

BlueDode
16-07-2010, 01:33 AM
waterdew:
kimkotary mentioned www.lacis.com (http://www.lacis.com) -- a source for a wide variety of lace making materials. Tournhout or Turnhout had no hits on their online catalog, but there were 4 books that came up when I searched for "Dutch" -- not sure if any of them are what you are looking for. Good luck!

PattyD
26-07-2010, 11:26 AM
Turnhout lace turns up on eBay quite frequently. While several different laces have been made in Turnhout in the last 400 years, it is the point de paris laces that are most characteristic of Turnhout. The lace is frequently made up as mats or doilies and have as a theme hunting or animals like swans with foliage and the point de paris ground also called Kat stitch or wire ground. Another theme is representations of coats of arms, usually of the cities and towns near Antwerp in Belgium. Belgium was created in 1830 as an independent country, so while it's history as a country is relatively short, Turnhout's history as a lace center is considerably older (1600s to the present).

Here is a link (http://www.adin.be/en/2ndPage.asp?dtn=03163-3549)to a sample of the lace that was sold by an antiques dealer.

BlueDode
26-07-2010, 06:43 PM
Thank you, PattyD for the "point de paris" clue. There is a book in Lacis' online catalog: www.lacis.com (http://www.lacis.com)
The Paris Point, Martine Piveteau
...but author is French; book is trilingual: French, English and Italian text, but no Dutch.
Not sure whether book is about the "ground" or its use in lacemaking. It mentions "straight" bobbin lace, so it is probably something else.

Judy
26-07-2010, 09:12 PM
Reading these titles and descriptions is the same as reading the botanist's catalog of the plants of California: too much detail, and terms that I don't know or can't see without a microscope. My level of understanding of Bobbin Lace is more rudimentary than that. I've finally figured out what is meant by "ground". One of them said the Turnhout ground was six pointed like the Star of David. Are all bobbin laces sorted by ground? If they have a ground? What if they don't have a ground? Are they groundless? I'm not trying to be flippant, but this is so beyond me that my reaction is humor....

PattyD
27-07-2010, 01:19 AM
I love that term: "groundless". Actually, there are several grounds which are repeating patterns for the background of the lace that performs several puposes
1. Some contrast to the generally more dense pattern part
2. Using up threads that are not needed for the pattern in a particular place

The oldest grounds from the 1600s are the densest and as time passed became more transparent until about 1830 when laces were almost all transparent ground with small motifs at the edges of the laces. The character of the laces and the grounds depended a great deal on the style of clothing at the time. There are classic grounds from the 1700s and 1800s: Vrai droeschel, Mechelen, Flanders, Valenciennes. These ground are decidedly difficult to make, but are drop dead gorgeous. After that came point ground which is seen in English Bucks lace, French Chantilly, and other similar laces from all over the European continent.

Secondly, there ARE "groundless" laces, but we use the more confusing term of "guipure" which derives from some continental language which I have never pinned down (a little bobbin lace humor, lots of pins in bobbin lace!). A guipure ground is simply bars woven into plaits (4 thread braids) that performs the same purposes as the ground. Guipure laces (English Bedfordshire, French Cluny, Maltese and many others) give the impression of the lace pattern floating in space because the bars have so much less presence than the patterned part of the lace.

PattyD
27-07-2010, 01:29 AM
Straight laces are edgings of various widths. The French point de paris industry was focused on edgings, while the Dutch/Belgian point de paris industry was focused on table laces which are made as a complete whole or as the edging for a mat or doily. The point de paris ground is the same in both. Edging designs and figural designs simply have different shapes of the cloth work.

BlueDode
27-07-2010, 04:05 AM
PattyD:
Sounds like I need to BOLO for a lace history book with pix: I've not paid attention to lacemaking history: you make it sound interesting. Thank you.

xstchntat
27-07-2010, 05:10 AM
It has been interesting reading about this, just when I found out about teneriffe and learned I had the tool in grandma's stuff and now you get me interested in more. I think I better stick to tatting for a while, but it does sound interesting.....
We will have to wait and see how this turns out in the long run-am I hooked into more types of lacemaking or not?

PattyD
27-07-2010, 05:35 AM
I always say you have to do what sings to you. I seem to be an indiscriminate feeder.

Judy
31-08-2010, 10:50 AM
Well, the last few weeks of struggling with shuttle tatting has taught me that the shuttle can be tamed, but it doesn't sing. I can manage it, just barely. It is helping me with my needle tatting though as I translate from shuttle to needle I can see the jumps better. The shuttle SCMR was still a mystery until I saw the You Tube video. An AH HA ! moment. I'm curious enough about bobbin lace that I might purchase a kit and try it. If I don't like it, I'll dump it. BTW, anyone out there want a "loom in a tube". Too much winding and winding and winding and making it very very tight. I don't mind winding and winding a shuttle but I don't want to bother setting up warp,... or is it weft? A friend showed my how to set it up. I put it in the trunk of my car when I left her home in June. Its still there!

Marty
31-08-2010, 03:45 PM
BTW, anyone out there want a "loom in a tube". Too much winding and winding and winding and making it very very tight. I don't mind winding and winding a shuttle but I don't want to bother setting up warp,... or is it weft? A friend showed my how to set it up. I put it in the trunk of my car when I left her home in June. Its still there!

I do! How do you want to arrange it?

Judy
31-08-2010, 09:07 PM
that was quick! Its yours. Send me a pm with your address, and/or your email address, and we can discuss shipping details.