Help w/ Heart Pattern -- SCMR?

[Lottefla]

The Christmas Heart pattern by Anne Bruvold had me stumped. I know I started and restarted about 9 times before finally finishing one.

As it is, I'm sure I didn't do the SCMR part right.

I looked at the picture and to me it looked like the chains crossed there, so I did a chain of 8 ds, joined with the other rings at the bottom, another chain of 8 ds, undid the thread from the needle, and cut it from the ball, then wrapped the 2nd chain around the 1st one before continuing with the 2 ds chain, then the last ring and chain.

I know this isn't the right way. My method sounds odd, and looks a tad odd too - but got me past that part finally.

The directions say: SCMR: 4(R:4+4)4
and it's in red, so I know that in regular tatting that would mean use a different shuttle.

What should I have done? HELP. I was thinking that I would make hearts for Valentine's day, but now I'm reconsidering. Thanks a bunch.

[Anke]

Hi Lottefla,

I did this heart 4 times lately and I did it this way:

Chain 4 dnrw ss R 4+4 ss 4 lj to base of chain

That way it worked for me but i don't know if it is the way Anne meant to.

[Judy]

Needle tatter, right? If not, ignore these instructions. The instruction "SCMR: 4(R:4+4)4" Says to me TWO rings. The 4()4 Ring is the "Self closing Mock Ring that you would normally make with a needle and ball thread. The R:4+4 is a floating or "thrown" ring off the other ring. The method I'll describe to make this ring is called a "true ring" by shuttle tatters. (hence "mock" for the other method). This will be the lower ring, and will join "+" to the picot where the three rings meet near the point below. The two rings are the same size but are constructed differently. This will be a bit fiddley since its working inside out. Usually we start at the center and work outward, but this one works the other way around.

Here's the sequence: Start with 4 ds on your needle using the ball thread. If you have a second needle the same size, haul it out now. Measure out a few feet of your ball thread and cut off the ball. You'll only be making 12 more ds, so it doesn't have to be too long. Thread the second needle with this cut end. Put this needle at the precise end of the 4 ds on needle one. Using the cut ball thread, make 4ds, being sure to leave as little space as you can manage where you jump from one needle to the other with that thread. Do the join, make 4 more ds. Now, close that ring on the second needle. You may now unthread needle two. Use that cut end to make the last 4 ds on needle 1. Close... remembering that this is a RING, so the needle goes through the loop. DONE (except for hiding ends... do you use the magic thread trick?) If you don't have a second needle, there's a work-around. Let me know.

[ncmomftbragg]

I am interested in making this heart but using a shuttle. Any suggestions?

[Anke]

The patterns is written for two shuttles as Anne is a shuttle tatter.

[ncmomftbragg]

Oh, ok!!! Thanks!!!

[Anke]

You're welcome!
Do you know where to find her patterns?
If not (and for all others who did not see it yet) - she has made a whole bunch of Christmas Heart Variations that can be found HERE (http://nuperelle.net/EngPatterns.htm).
There are many different other patterns as well. (Her dragons are very special.)

[Judith Connors]

You don't need a so-called SCMR in this pattern at all. Just use a clover formation at the top (dip) of the heart. The pattern is very straightforward, so why make a mountain out of a molehill? You can needle-tat the whole piece quite easily.

[Anke]

I cannot imagine how you mean that, Judith.
My thought would be to use one bigger ring instead of two small rings in the middle.

[Catriona]

Here's the sequence: Start with 4 ds on your needle using the ball thread. If you have a second needle the same size, haul it out now. Measure out a few feet of your ball thread and cut off the ball. You'll only be making 12 more ds, so it doesn't have to be too long. Thread the second needle with this cut end. Put this needle at the precise end of the 4 ds on needle one. Using the cut ball thread, make 4ds, being sure to leave as little space as you can manage where you jump from one needle to the other with that thread. Do the join, make 4 more ds. Now, close that ring on the second needle. You may now unthread needle two. Use that cut end to make the last 4 ds on needle 1. Close... remembering that this is a RING, so the needle goes through the loop. DONE (except for hiding ends... do you use the magic thread trick?) If you don't have a second needle, there's a work-around. Let me know.

Hi Judy,

I only have one needle available, could you tell me what the work around is?

[Judy]

After the first 4 ds., carefully remove them from the needle. You can put a paper clip in the loop and snug the stitches up to the paperclip. You'll be putting your needle through the loop at the end, so don't lose it. Now unthread the needle. Cut the thread off the ball as described above. Thread the needle with that cut end. Now, put the needle right next to that 4th ds. Keep the gap as small as possible. Tat the ring using the ball thread that's now through the eye of the needle. Make the join after 4 ds. Tat the next 4. You now need to close the ring with the 8 stitches on the needle, snug it up. Unthread the needle, and rethread with the 1st core thread. Again, keeping the gap as small as possible, tat the last 4 stitches with the ball thread. You'r now going to close the second ring... remove the stitches, put the needle through where the paper clip was, close, tie, hide ends.

The key is to try to close the second ring in a manner that hides how the floating ring was constructed. There will be a small gap which looks like a picot join.

[Catriona]

Thanks Judy, I thought that might by how it was done. The paper clip tip is helpful, I was wandering how I could secure the stitches if I had to take them off the needle.
:thmbup:

[Judith Connors]

Hello, Anke. Re: the heart design
Start at the 'dip' of the heart with a clover (three-ring formation). This way you will already have placed the ring in the centre of the heart. Then tat the rings and chains around the outside to complete your valentine.

Needle tatters don't need SCMRs.

[Catriona]

here is my effort...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v235/catsphotos/P2130513.jpg

I had to use a darner needle as I don't have a second tatting needle the same size and I couldn't work out how to follow the instructions for the one needle technique. I'm pretty pleased with the results.

[carolivy]

Very nicely done Catriona!

[Anke]

Thank you, Judith. I did not see the possible clover at first...

[Judith Connors]

You're welcome, Anke.

Love your heart (pardon the pun), Catriona. What thread did you use? It seems to have a sheen.

[Judy]

Wonderful... as another thread here says, improvise, improvise, improvise... fortunately not too many stitches to put on the darner. I too love the thread.

[Catriona]

thanks guys. The thread is size 8 perle crochet cotton, i'm not sure of the exact shade as it was just in a bag of thread my mum had lying around.

[umbrellatoo]

Hi Judy,

Thanks for the explanation on making the SCMR with needle tatting. I'm trying to visualize how to do this before I play. I already make a heart and improvised by making two 4ds chains to make a ring. I'd like to try your explanation next. :) My question to you though is, what is the magic thread trick for hiding ends?

Thanks so much,
Debbi

[Sherongb]

When you needle tat you have a thread end through the eye of the needle, leave a bit of thread, then start making the stitches with the same thread. When done you remove the stitches from the needle, and pull that thread through. When you have a small loop left you put your needle back through the little loop and tighten the core thread getting rid of the little loop. Although it's called a ring by needle tatters, shuttle tatters doing the same thing call it a SCMR.

Perhaps needle tatting terminology needs to change and call it the same thing as shuttle tatters call it.

There is what is called a 'true ring' done with needle tatting that is worked differently (but I can't explain it right now as I don't remember it), that is the same as a shuttle tatted ring.

[carolivy]

Debbi, you can find lots of information on the Magic Thread Trick here: http://www.intatters.com/showthread.php?2517-How-on-EARTH-do-I-hid-this-end!&highlight=magic+thread+trick


Hi Judy,

Thanks for the explanation on making the SCMR with needle tatting. I'm trying to visualize how to do this before I play. I already make a heart and improvised by making two 4ds chains to make a ring. I'd like to try your explanation next. :) My question to you though is, what is the magic thread trick for hiding ends?

Thanks so much,
Debbi

[carolivy]

To make a "true ring" in Needle tatting, you are going to have the needle on the thread, but instead of working the ring on the middle of the thread, you are going to work it at the cut end of the thread. When working with True Rings, you won't have a ball, you will have to cut your thread and work with looooong thread.


When you needle tat you have a thread end through the eye of the needle, leave a bit of thread, then start making the stitches with the same thread. When done you remove the stitches from the needle, and pull that thread through. When you have a small loop left you put your needle back through the little loop and tighten the core thread getting rid of the little loop. Although it's called a ring by needle tatters, shuttle tatters doing the same thing call it a SCMR.

Perhaps needle tatting terminology needs to change and call it the same thing as shuttle tatters call it.

There is what is called a 'true ring' done with needle tatting that is worked differently (but I can't explain it right now as I don't remember it), that is the same as a shuttle tatted ring.

[Judith Connors]

[QUOTE: Although it's called a ring by needle tatters, shuttle tatters doing the same thing call it a SCMR. Perhaps needle tatting terminology needs to change and call it the same thing as shuttle tatters call it.]


This mock ring has been used by shuttle tatters for over 100 years. It's known as a 'central mock ring'. It can carry picots or small rings (if you use a second shuttle). Elgiva Nicholls illustrated it circa 1975. It has been used by needle tatters for about 40 years.

The term SCMR came into being in the mid-1990s, so it's actually the new kid on the block.

[xstchntat]

I use a true ring when needle tatting, even when I use a ball thread. I showed an example of this in the thread on the Flower Bookmark pattern of mine(link in my signature). I would follow the pattern the same as written for the shuttle and only do a SCMR when it is called for. I also do not use a SLT after every element as it is not needed this way as the structure follows the same as shuttle tatting.

Your heart is beautiful Catriona.

[Sherongb]

When I suggested that needle tatters change their terminology I was thinking how most of the patterns are written. If needle and shuttle tatters used the same terminology (ring and SCMR which are used in the patterns vs true ring and ring in needle tatting) there would be less confusion and less need to 'translate' patterns from shuttle terms to needle terms.

Or we could all call the SCMR a 'chain made ring' which is more descriptive of how it is made.

[Judith Connors]

It's just a 'mock ring'. Simple as that. All mock rings are made from a chain (or chains, as in the case of an onion ring).
When used in the centre, it's a 'central mock ring'. Anywhere else, shuttle tatters know them as 'mock rings'. [Nicholls, Konior, Auld, Fikkert, all use the term.]
Needle tatters refer to them as 'rings' but realise that they are 'mock' rings. The true ring of needle tatting (tatted with a single thread, from the tail towards the needle's eye) is a 'roselle'.

What's the sense of changing perfectly good name/s that have been in use for years? Since the 1990s 'SCMR' has been regarded as new, but the opposite is the case. The mock ring is as old as the hills.

[carolivy]

It's just a 'mock ring'. Simple as that. All mock rings are made from a chain (or chains, as in the case of an onion ring).
When used in the centre, it's a 'central mock ring'. Anywhere else, shuttle tatters know them as 'mock rings'. [Nicholls, Konior, Auld, Fikkert, all use the term.]
Needle tatters refer to them as 'rings' but realise that they are 'mock' rings. The true ring of needle tatting (tatted with a single thread, from the tail towards the needle's eye) is a 'roselle'.

What's the sense of changing perfectly good name/s that have been in use for years? Since the 1990s 'SMCR' has been regarded as new, but the opposite is the case. The mock ring is as old as the hills.

I'm sorry Judith, but as someone who needle tatted for about 13 years before I found InTatters, I never knew that the Rings that I was making were called by anyone else Mock Rings. They were Rings...end of story. When I came here and heard about Mock Rings, I was TOTALLY confused and befuddled!

[Sherongb]

I'm sorry Judith, but as someone who needle tatted for about 13 years before I found InTatters, I never knew that the Rings that I was making were called by anyone else Mock Rings. They were Rings...end of story. When I came here and heard about Mock Rings, I was TOTALLY confused and befuddled!

And when a pattern called for a SCMR you didn't get it without help. If the same terminology was used by both groups it would be easier. This is not the only thing called different names by different tatters or groups. Two designers may mean the same thing but use different terms to describe it. Different designers write patterns with differing notations. I am not saying one is right or one is wrong, I am just saying it will be helpful if we had standards of how things were written or notated so everyone got the same meaning from the pattern.

[carolivy]

And when a pattern called for a SCMR you didn't get it without help. If the same terminology was used by both groups it would be easier. This is not the only thing called different names by different tatters or groups. Two designers may mean the same thing but use different terms to describe it. Different designers write patterns with differing notations. I am not saying one is right or one is wrong, I am just saying it will be helpful if we had standards of how things were written or notated so everyone got the same meaning from the pattern.

tee-hee...before coming here, I just tended to ignore the terminology and look at the picture that came with the pattern. If it LOOKED like a ring, then it must be a ring, no matter what terminology was given. That was before coming here and leaning what some of those terms meant.

[Judith Connors]

Carol, exactly what I said. Needle tatters call them 'rings' and have done so for approx. 40 years. [Though you do know the difference between so-called 'rings' and 'true rings'.] Re 'mock rings': we all live and learn; that's why intatters is such a great forum, as long as we stay open-minded.

I'll let that all soak in.... When everyone has sorted themselves out, let me know what you decide so that I can keep the note for the next revised edition of 'An Illustrated Dictionary of Tatting'.

[carolivy]

Before I joined here, I only ever did the one kind of ring with the needle. I never even tried the "true ring"...never found a pattern that I saw that I couldn't do with the other, so didn't see the reason to learn that part of Barbara Foster's book...just skipped that section all together. So for me, a Ring was what is considered a mock ring by shuttle tatters.
Until finding the Tatted Christmas Tree by BeStitched, I never saw any need to do tatting where I wasn't working off the ball entirely. I'm not particularly drawn to the Hens and Chicks type patterns so never really even looked at those type patterns. I don't care for the bare thread most of the time.
I think the names for Needle tatters should be the same as they are for Shuttle tatters. If it is a Mock Ring or SCMR, then that is what it should be called, not just a Ring by needle tatters. It causes no end of confusion when trying to "convert" patterns from shuttle to needle.