odd question about use..

[Quirkyk]

Ok...so I have lofty dreams...I have a small side business where I make craft items for gift...an example is an apron and I also do scrapbooking for hire. I would love to incorporate my tatted pieces into these products but not sure about the legalities. Can I use a pattern to create the piece and then use that tatted piece as a part of my apron that I sell? As for the scrapbooking I do it all digitally so I'd be tatting a piece, scanning it...extracting it and using it in a digital layout that my customer gets as a printed version. So in the scrapbooking they won't actually get the tatted piece but a kind of picture of it. Or the posibility of doing my own cards with little tatted scenes on them...can I use patterns I find or would I have to make the patterns up myself? any thoughts ladies would be greatly appriciated :)

[sara]

There is no cut and dried answer to your questions. Usage depends on the copyright. Some designers give you carte blanche and let you make, sell, etc., as long as you don't sell the pattern. Some allow all that with the caveat that you include the designer information. Some only allow you use of their patterns for personal use only, no selling. Some allow only X number to be sold (like 25 or 50, etc.).

The best answer is to read each and every copyright. I also write the designer to get permission (or denial) in writing as back up. Vintage patterns are more easily used as their copyrights (in general, certainly not in specific) are often expired.

How's that for a not-so-quick answer? :innocent:

[Marty]

Copyright is a very complex area of law.
As a general guide, if you buy the pattern you can use it as you see fit. If someone is selling the pattern, the reasonable man would assume it is for the purpose of having the lace made. Once you make it you can attach it to your aprons and sell them. You are not required to tell anyone what pattern you used or who designed it. It would be polite, though. I know there will be a grundle of people who disagree with me, but really, the laws affecting our tatting patterns are no different than those affecting the Butterick or Simplicity sewing patterns. If you buy one, you can make something or many somethings from the pattern and sell them at your yard sale or church fund raiser or the local consignment shop. You don't need to tell people you made it from Simplicity pattern no. 4756.
That said, you cannot make forty bazillion of them and make your first million, without giving the tatting designer a share (provided it's the lace and not the fantastic apron garnering the interest). I would not want to seem to belittle your work, but I doubt you're going to sell enough for that to come into play (which of us does?). The only way the designer could collect, if you don't make a deal first or voluntarily pay, would be to sue you. There's probably not going to be a lawyer willing to take the case unless that designer already has a deep pocket. So...don't use designs from rich designers. :wink:

[Kersti]

The piece you make is your own to do with as you like. The part that is copyrighted is the written pattern. So, you could use a pattern that you found and make as many as you like and use the items on your aprons etc. Whether you got it online on in a book, this is what a pattern is all about. What you cannot do is claim that the pattern is yours.

As a designer, I would be tickled pink if you had chosen one of my pieces to use - it would be lovely if you told the designer of your use.

You cannot copy the pattern, so you can't make copies and then sell the copies of the written patterns.

And I'll no doubt get crucified for the next bit...

If the pattern is freely available online, I can't see how anyone could object to you printing off a couple of copies to get a team of tatters to make up - providing you had all the details such as the author's name and the address of where you found it. However, some will consider this to be in breach of copyright. Of course, if someone objects to that you can always just point the tatter to the website in question and get them to hit the print button.

Copyright is an incredibly sticky issue, it is often mixed up with legalities, morals and feelings. At the end of the day, the copyright must be pursued by the copyright holder, which means that the state cannot prosecute you for breaches - the copyright holder must do that, hence the current issues with movies and music companies and piratebay.

My general advice is to be totally open about what you're doing and let the designer know your intentions. In 99% of cases you will find them to be the most kindly and wonderfully accommodating people.

I'm sure too that we'd all love to see what you end up doing so we can get some ideas for our own projects!

[Quirkyk]

oh you all have been super super helpful!!!! LOL...Marty you didn't belittle my work! I agree...I doubt I'll ever make that much off my crafting! The Business was actually started because my mother, neighbor and I get together just about every other night and do crafting...mostly knitting, crocheting and my scrapping or sculpting...and we figured instead of our houses sitting filled to the brim we'd sell some :) More to help feed the cost of our crafting supplies :) Making the hubbies happy! :)

[Elizabita]

lol I have the same problem with my fiance, he keeps wanting me to sell my tatting to pay f or the supply costs and then make some extra (h knows I hate the "daily grind" and wants me to do what I want at home) but I feel so guilty if someone offers me money, even on my own designs

[BlueDode]

Quirkyk / Kristen:
One thing to be careful about is tatting any copyrighted logos or images without permission (keep any copy of permissions on file, BTW): cartoon characters (such as Peanuts), university logos (usually if you make a donation to them AND perhaps they need to approve your work first), and the like.
Another caveat: beware of putting names on children's clothes: strangers can call them by their names...(not a copyright issue, a safety issue).
These issues wouldn't normally apply to lacemaking, just passing it along: copyright is a hot topic in a variety of areas, from my experiences in machine knitting some years ago to previous work in education. Much of it is a gray area: new laws, adjudication of case law or new cases can change the playing field here, so be alert to changes. It would be wise to contact the copyright holder if you can, to get some kind of idea where the copyrightholder might stand on the issue.
Happy tatting!

[Maureen L]

I'd especially love to see your aprons! - Aprons are very trendy now, so I am right back in fashion,having always used them. At the recent Brisbane Craft Show there was a stand selling fabulous patterns and fabrics, so I am inspired!

[Kersti]

Good point BlueDode

Images are covered by a different copyright to the patterns. This is why in the pattern library there is so much given to name of the person who supplied the image. Keeping hold of the copyright permission is a good idea if you do get any, and watch for some people who can get particularly sensitive - sometimes it's just not worth it!

[CindyK]

This was a great question and all fabulous information provided. Will this thread stay here on this site (forever) to look back on?

[Kersti]

Yes it will!

[TotusMel]

As a novice designer and a long time etsian, I've seen a lot of copying and copyright arguments. Personally, I don't sell my patterns, but I do offer a few for free. I don't care if you make them for personal use, or local sale, I do care if you try to sell something made with my pattern where I sell my pieces...and I would be annoyed if one were to try and pass off my work as their own.

I know some people are very vigilant about protecting their copyright & others are very laid back about it. Best and most polite thing to do is quite simply to ask first.

[Quirkyk]

Totus, I totally understand your reasoning on selling something where you do...I think for now I'll stick to asking the designer :) Thanks everyone!