string through bead question

[Holly Ann]

I am trying to do an easy bracelet/necklace for the holidays (I want to get several done by then, for gifts). I keep seeing "put both threads through the bead" and "unthread your needle and put both threads through the bead." I know I'm tired, but how is this done? I just can't seem to picture it in my mind. Thanks in advance!

[Judy]

Helps if you can tell us which pattern you're doing so we can look it up and make sure we understand the context... somebody undoubtedly will have it, too. I'm not a bead expert, so someone else will have to provide better direction.

[Holly Ann]

I am trying to do Denise's Bracelet by Deborah Strickland (on top of the paper says Georgia Seitz, so maybe on her website) and also on Georgia Seitz web site: "Cher's Ankel Bracelet." Hope this helps.

[Sweetwater Gold]

I can't help you too much, Holly Ann. I'm such a noob, but at my local library is a book: "Tatting; the contemporary art of knotting with a shuttle" by Rhoda L. Auld. She shows quite a bit of tatting with beads with great photos. Perhaps that book, if you can get your hands on it, might help. Good luck.

[Fiona T]

I find it difficult to thread the thread through the beads, I think it depends on the size of the bead and thread you are using. I find it heaps easier to add the beads to the shuttle thread before starting and slide them in when needed. You can also add them to the ball thread if beads are needed on the chain. Hope that helps???

[Fiona T]

oops have realised you are a needle tatter...not sure quite how to add beads in that case? ball thread maybe? Sorry, no help after all...

[Sherongb]

You can try checking out the Proboards site, http://needletat (http://needletatting.proboards.com/index.cgi)ting.proboards.com/index.cgi (http://needletatting.proboards.com/index.cgi) Needle Tatting Two to see if they have tutorials. I know the site owner is MIA but you may be able to get on it and find something there.

[Holly Ann]

Thanks everyone for your help!

[Judy]

Well, by happenstance I just did an earring. There were three types of bead uses, so lets see if this organizes your thinking.
Type 1..easiest. Beads go on the ball thread. In this case the bead replaces what would be a picot, you bring it up from the supply on the ball thread,and the ball thread is through the bead.
Type 2. Put a bead ON a picot. In this case you make an extraordinarily long picot. It needs to be part of a join someplace. Leave it bare until you come to the join point. Now, put the bead on the crochet hook , catch the picot in the hook and pull the two picot threads through the bead. Now join onto the picot part hanging out of the bead in the usual way.
Type 3. Pretty easy.. Bead on the core thread. sort of. What you do is tat to where you need the bead on the core thread. Now, run the needle through the bead and put it on right next to your other stitches. Make sure the needle will go all the way over the eye of the needle. If it doesn't, back up, and take the stitches already on the needle off being careful not to scramble them. Now unthread the needle and put the bead on the core thread. You can use a helper like a floss threader to get it on the core. Re-thread the needle. Now you can resume with the rest of the stitches for that ring or chain.
Note: This is where shuttle tatters have an advantage. They can put a supply of beads on the core thread and just use as needed. Needle tatters can't do that -- at least I don't know if a way to do it. We need to figure out another way to do it at the point where the bead(s) is supposed to show up on a core thread.

Type 4. Joining to a picot with a bead already on it. If the hole in the bead is large enough, and you have put the type1 bead on. Then when you need to do a join, just run the needle through the bead. This would be like a "shuttle" or simple needle "lock" join. Works slick if the needle is fine enough. if not, you may need a floss threader again to help pull your core thread through. I didn't try putting the ball thread through the bead. Seemed unnecessary. You end up with both threads through the bead.

[PattyD]

Well in case of Type 2, what I do (with shuttles, but this should transfer directly to needle tatting) is this:
1. Get the bead, use a crochet hook with a small enough hook to take a loop of thread through the desired bead,
2. Put a paperclip or T-pin or anything that will leave enough thread to join to
3. Proceed with the next DS, watching that the loop the bead is on neither stretches or shrinks.
4. After a few DS, you can remove the bead and whatever is holding it on until you get to the point where you intend to join to this picot.
5 Remount the bead, the picot will be the perfect length and you don't have to have beads roaming around on your thread.

[louine]

I'm not sure anyone has exactly answered your question.....as I read it you will have to thread the bead on the ball thread to start your tatting project when you bring the bead to the needle you willl have to take the needle thread through the bead as well and then finish the ring or chain as needed......I have never seen this notation before but looks like it works.

[Judy]

That's a good idea, Patty. You won't have any extra thread in the picot, making the join loose.

[perlnaofee]

Hallo Holly Ann, I came along today and found your question,may be this will help you, as I know this technique also as one, I discribed in my books quite well ;-))

I looked at the pattern you discribed now and in that bracelet you mentioned, the butterfly is sitting inbetween the rings on both threads. That means: on the ball thread and the needle thread. To manage this,
first thread all the butterflys on your ball thread, then thread your needle and start tatting, finish the first ring,
slide the bead (butterlfly) on the ball thread against the ring,
now you need to put the needle thread through the bead:
if you have a big whole in the bead and choosen a thin thread, you might be able to go with your threaded needle #9 or #7 just through the bead and thats it, you have both threads togehter behind the bead. But if your threaded needle doesn't go through, you unthread the needle, take a beading needle (which is thinner than your tatting needle) or a bigeye-needle and pull the thread throuhg the bead. Thread your tatting needle again an continue tatting the next ring.

hope this helps you now finishing your gifts:-)

[janet6567]

Where does one find a crochet hook small enough to go through a seed bead? I've looked and the smallest I can find won't work.

[PattyD]

I use size 15 or 16 crochet hooks and get them from Lacis who is on the web.

[janet6567]

:flowers:Thank you so much, Patty. The smallest I've found in stores here is size 11. So I will order one from Lacis. That will make adding beads to picots so much easier!! I have found that the Lacis shuttles do hold more thread and beads, so I ordered some from Handy Hands for just that reason.

[IdahoCanuck]

I just use floss threaders... Put the bead on end of the threader, put the end of the threader through the picot then double it back through the bead (yes it will fit for seed beads, but not the micro ones) then pull the picot through the bead.... Then with the threader still through the end of the picot, I use it to pull the join thread through the picot ( or needle thread) then Continue on....

[carolivy]

I put on a small piece of thread, put the bead on a flosser then put the thread in the little loop on the flosser and pull the bead down off the flosser onto the thread then onto my project. Can to any size bead this way.

[Judy]

Idaho.. I'm confused. And i'm supposed to understand that there's no difference mathematically between donuts and coffee mugs...:ermm:

[IdahoCanuck]

What?... Who?... How?... I don't get the connection from 'beads on picots' to 'donuts & coffee cups' ? Either I missed something or it's the meds talking again..... Or more likely both! & I don't think I'm in Kansas ToTo!

[IdahoCanuck]

What?... Who?... How?... I don't get the connection from 'beads on picots' to 'donuts & coffee cups' ? Either I missed something or it's the meds talking again..... Or more likely both! & I don't think I'm in Kansas ToTo!

[IdahoCanuck]

:ohmy: And now I'm repeating myself. Ok, I will go quietly back under my rock sir....

[Judy]

Oy... my fault. I took all these classes in a math subject called "topology"... two false starts.. finally got it the third time. Topology is an attempt to describe the properties of things by some "rules". One of them has to do with whether or not it has any holes, and how many holes. The classic joke was that a topologist couldn't tell the difference between the donut (one hole) and the coffee mug (one hole where your fingers go). If you smushed the donut and bent and curved it like clay, you could turn the donut into the coffee mug. I couldn't follow where the thread and floss threader and picot were going and it reminded me of the bad old days of having to drop the class twice so I wouldn't fail it. Actually I was at University of Kansas when all this happened, so I was in Kansas (no dog though).

[IdahoCanuck]

Ok.... Believe it or not, that actually makes sense to me..... And I tend to think in strictly logical terms... So maybe it is the meds helping! ? ! I still don't think I'm in Kansas.... However, it is pretty nice & snug under this rock :). And no one knows I'm even here !

[louine]

Topology is a very interesting Math., sometimes called, rubber sheet Geometry,....some great games and puzzles...the Moebius strip is included in Topology topics.....I knit Moebius scarves etc .....See Cat Bordhi's site (http://catbordhi.com/category/patterns/moebius/). Her books are great.

[Holly Ann]

Ok everyone! :) I teach science...not math (althougth they do go hand in hand). :) LOL!

[Judy]

Ah, science. Membranes, permeable or not? Skins, whole or holey, stretchy, elastic, cell walls, punctures, self healing holes (don't know the math term for that!). the geometry class problem was to put on a shirt and a sweater, and then to prove that one of them was not inside the other, you had to remove the shirt without taking off the sweater -- helps a lot if t h e sweater is 6 sizes too big, and very stretchy.

[Fiona T]

LOL...maths and science discussion right up my alley :)

I have had the same problem with finding a hook small enough for seed beads, but in the last week using a 'needle threader' (I think it was called a flosser earlier in this thread) has helped immensely with Frivoles snowflakes. I will be doing this more from now on, as the needle threader is so very quick and I am not going crosseyed :cry: trying to thread beads onto the thread by hand.