I was just explaining some things to a new tatter...

[PattyD]

Last Sunday, I was explaining some thing to a new tatter and I just realized that they might be of use to other new tatters:

1. Don't choke your tatting

The trick in tatting is to get the stitches to slide on the core thread. That means the stitches can't be so tight they don't slide. It's not quite as critical for a chain as it is for a ring, but pulling too tight just crumples the work.

If you have to pull harder to get more thread out, you're past the point when you should have stopped.


2. Post the shuttle when closing a ring

After you finish all the DS for a ring, pass the shuttle through the center of the unclosed ring from front to back.

The technical reason (for those who love all the gory details) is that the last half of the DS moves the core thread in front of the working thread (that actually forms the DS). If you close the ring in this position, the core thread comes out of the front of the ring and can force the last DS to crumple and even force it not to slike anymore.

3. There are 2 easy ways to get even sized picots

Measure the length of thread by eyeballing the DS preceding it. Usually leaving a space as wide as 2 or 3 DS leaves a nice size picot.

Alternatively, use a gauge. Place a toothpick or the end of a crochet hook or a flat piece of thin plastic between the core thread and the working thread so that you have a uniform length of thread for your picots.

4. Reverse work is a local procedure

When the instructions call for reverse work (RW), the last element you worked is the point of reference. So, if the last thing you worked was a ring, make sure the front side is facing you (hint: the shuttle trhead exits from the right side of the ring). Reversing it means that the you flip the ring head over heels, the threads should come out of the top of the ring in your hand. The ball thread comes out of the left and the shuttle thread comes out of the right.

[BahmaTerri]

Thanks Patty. Very helpful reminders.

[McPhel]

Does everyone do #2? Another thing I didn't know.

[Marty]

Does everyone do #2? Another thing I didn't know.
:happydancetwirl:Me! Me! Me! I don't do that. I tried it. It doesn't work as advertised for me. I's probably something I'm doing, but it makes me unable to close the ring completely. I would rather not do it and avoid the partially-closed-ring-gap. I am still able to open rings for retro-tatting. After trying and trying, I decided it just didn't work for the way I tat and quit trying it. After all, I tat for pleasure and if it was just getting me all agitated and grumpy, it wasn't worth doing. I feel much better now. If somebody doesn't want to look at my non-dropped-through-the-ring tatting, that's okay too. :biggrin:

[CindyK]

I thought #2 was "optional". In the T.A.T. instructions, doing this makes the ring lay nice and flat. I find I have to be careful to hold onto the whole ring tightly to close the ring without making some stitches roll under. I think I can tell that the rings lay nice and flat when dropping the shuttle through, but I need more practice to have a solid opinion.

[PattyD]

Well, posting the shuttle, in and of itself won't make anything happen. Another couple of points when closing a ring are these:

1. ALWAYS hold the DS in the pinch. All those love stitches need to be held in place or they may get dragged off by the moving core thread.

2. My method of closing a ring is to hold the DS in the pinch, as above,
Pull the core thread directly, but gently to the right until just a tiny bit of core thread shows at the bottom of the ring. Just pulling to the right will never close the ring, the core thread is following a U shaped path and like the ends of the U, the ring will never close. Then I change direction and tug gently toward myself (which constitutes a 90 degree change of direction.)

You get the best traction on the core thread when you hold it pretty close to the ring you are closing

[madhur]

Thanks. I'll try the dropping shuttle method next time I pick up tatting. but what is #2? Will anyone please explain. I'll be grateful.

[PattyD]

but what is #2? Will anyone please explain.

:ermm: There are two number 2s in this discusson, so far

The first one is to post the shuttle which means to pass the shuttle through the unclosed ring.

The second one is a method of how to close rings and get them to actually close.

My basic point is that pulling the core thread straight out of the bottom of a ring will never close it completely. It's against the laws of physics! When the ring is almost closed, change the direction that you pull the thread, (I pull toward myself) and the ring will close nicely.

[Krystledawne]

I always lose a stitch when I post the shuttle. SO I started adding an extra first half stitch then posting. It closes perfectly, but leaves a tiny bar at the bottom. I wish I could figure it out though because I'm doing TAT too right now, and they seem to think it's magic to just post the shuttle. I don't get it!

[Marty]

Krystledawne, not everyone tats the same, and not everything works for everyone. Don't feel bad, because I don't get it (posting the shuttle) either.

[madhur]

Posting the shuttle as well as the extra half ds worked wonders to my tatting. I'm delighted to see neatness creeping into my tatting gradually. Thanks Patty.

[Jon Yusoff]

:happydancetwirl:Me! Me! Me! I don't do that. I tried it. It doesn't work as advertised for me. :biggrin:

I don't post the shuttle through the ring either. I tried a few times but just didn't like the way it looks for my rings.

[Marty]

I don't post the shuttle through the ring either. I tried a few times but just didn't like the way it looks for my rings.

Wow! Since I admire your tatting tremendously, this is good to know. It makes me feel better about missing out on whatever advantage this innovation gives some people's tatting.:biggrin:

[Ridgewoman]

:happydancetwirl:Me! Me! Me! I don't do that. I tried it. It doesn't work as advertised for me. I's probably something I'm doing, but it makes me unable to close the ring completely. I would rather not do it and avoid the partially-closed-ring-gap. I am still able to open rings for retro-tatting. After trying and trying, I decided it just didn't work for the way I tat and quit trying it. After all, I tat for pleasure and if it was just getting me all agitated and grumpy, it wasn't worth doing. I feel much better now. If somebody doesn't want to look at my non-dropped-through-the-ring tatting, that's okay too. :biggrin:
I agree...agitated and grumpy is counter intuitive to the pleasure in my tatting. LOL I drop the shuttle through the ring, close very slowly and pull towards my body....that works for me!
It's another one of those individual choices. I don't enter work in competitions..just tat for pleasure....so worrying about nit picking how one stitch looks is counter productive in my case. If I have to over think tatting and get really technical; then I loose the fun portion. I enjoy hearing about all of this technical stuff; and, sometimes I even understand what's written. :cool:
Tat On!!!! :heart: bj

[Anke]

I've never heard about "dropping" before :cry:
I just pull and the ring closes... Don't ask me in which direction... (I am not at home at moment to check it out.) I press the ring flat and later hold the base of the ring with my fingernails and pull! But -hmmm- sometimes it does not close ENOUGH... perhaps I should try the dropping thing some day! :happy:

[McPhel]

Re Marty. Just noticed your "ribbons at county fair" line. I won a best in needlework at our county fair this year. The judge was really impressed with tatting. I'm not taking any credit for having wonderful tatting. Just did some and entered it! Judges vary so much from year to year!! Thanks to everyone for the discussion of droping the shuttle through befor closing the ring.

[Rosalee25]

What is TAT and where do I find it??

[CindyK]

What is TAT and where do I find it??

T.A.T. (Tatters Across Time) is a proficiency program for shuttle tatting.

Here's the web address:
http://tattersacrosstime.org/

I hope this is what you were asking about! :smile:

[Rosalee25]

Thank you! That helped alot. I am so glad I found this forum. I thought I was alone! I taught myself to tat about 2 years ago, starting with the needle and I am now using the shuttle. I look forward to bugging everyone with my beginner's questions! Thank you.

[Judith Connors]

I don't pass (post) the shuttle through when tatting the traditional way. However, the shuttle needs to be passed through the ring when tatting reverse order double stitch (RODS), otherwise the ring will twist out of shape at the closure.

RODS is where you make the second half of the stitch first, followed by the first half, i.e. the 'over' followed by the 'under'. This method is used by tatters who work 'directionally', that is, they want all their lark's head knots on the same side of their work. RODS can be done on rings or chains, depending on the pattern.

Perhaps tatters who need to pass/post their shuttles through rings are actually tatting reverse order double stitch?

Judith.

[PattyD]

Actually, Judith, I post from the front side (normal order DS) and don't from the backside (RODS), just the opposite of your method. My objective is to get the core thread to the back of the work. The first half DS puts the core thread to the back and the second hlaf DS puts the core thread to the front, so frontside work posts the shuttle and backside doesn't. I am sure there are other bits of differences inherent in each individual Tatter's work that make posting or not posting the shuttle or when to post or not, the technique of choice.

[CindyK]

Actually, Judith, I post from the front side (normal order DS) and don't from the backside (RODS), just the opposite of your method.

Patty - do you always follow this method of posting/not posting?


My objective is to get the core thread to the back of the work. The first half DS puts the core thread to the back and the second hlaf DS puts the core thread to the front, so frontside work posts the shuttle and backside doesn't. I am sure there are other bits of differences inherent in each individual Tatter's work that make posting or not posting the shuttle or when to post or not, the technique of choice.

Would there be specific reasons to have the core thread to the front or the back for the next element of the piece?

(Sorry - I DO love the gory details) :)

[Krystledawne]

Update- I'm meeting Gwen from TAT this weekend, so I'll get the lowdown on this whole post-the-shuttle thing.

[CindyK]

Update- I'm meeting Gwen from TAT this weekend, so I'll get the lowdown on this whole post-the-shuttle thing.

Perfect - I will be waiting to read what you find out. :thmbup: Thanks!

In the meantime, I will go back to my TAT projects and read the lesson that included that over again. Maybe I'm forgetting what it said there as well.

[PattyD]

Hi Cindy

The thread in a ring has to finish nose to tail. The thread that formed the last half of the last DS becomes the core thread that dives into the first DS. When I was introduced to posting the shuttle, it just made sense to me that the having the shuttle thread over the transfer point between the last DS and the first DS could look untidy or even cause trouble, as in encouraging the ring not to close. I have had consistent success with better looking rings ever since I started posting the shuttle.

One thing that wasn't clear when I started was what happens when you are tatting on the back side of the work with RODS. (Reverse Order Double Stitches). Since I WANT the shuttle thread on the back of the work, then the shuttle is NOT posted.

The last note is that this is all about NORMAL flipped shuttle tatting. I was showing my lace group how to do SSSRs and found one member who tats in the bottom of the loop. She was thinking that maybe she should change, but I told her no, because her tatting is very nice and she is used to working that way. Since I couldn't give her a blow by blow, we just made a general set of steps and she got on famously. Don't as me how this applies to her style of tatting, I don't know! LOL!

There is a also a non-flipping, left handed tatter (Michael) who does great work and again I have not the least notion if any of this applies to his method of working or not.

So, for me, posting the shuttle is one of the techniques I use for frontside/backside tatting and my objective is more beautiful, even work.

[CindyK]

Hi Cindy

The thread in a ring has to finish nose to tail. The thread that formed the last half of the last DS becomes the core thread that dives into the first DS. When I was introduced to posting the shuttle, it just made sense to me that the having the shuttle thread over the transfer point between the last DS and the first DS could look untidy or even cause trouble, as in encouraging the ring not to close. I have had consistent success with better looking rings ever since I started posting the shuttle.

So, for me, posting the shuttle is one of the techniques I use for frontside/backside tatting and my objective is more beautiful, even work.

Thanks Patty - I appreciate the details. I have been tatting just to look at the stitches better and experiment with these various discussion items. I think I just need more experience to really understand where the threads 'go' in each stitch, where they start and where they end up. (does that make sense? - I tend to be very visual and need to see details for it to click in my brain!) Once it 'clicks' it will all make sense . . . won't it? :huh:

[BahmaTerri]

If for no other reason, I found that posting the shuttle made it easier to open a ring (it seems like I always have to open at least one ring because I wasn't paying attention). This is an interesting discussion which makes me think I should definitely practice closing rings both ways to see where the thread is when I begin the next DS. Hmmm. Thanks!

[Joy]

Please may I add to this....by passing the shuttle through the centre of the unclosed ring from front to back is also a great help if you want to undo your tatting....believe me it is much easier to undo that ring
hugs
Joy






QUOTE: 2. Post the shuttle when closing a ring

After you finish all the DS for a ring, pass the shuttle through the center of the unclosed ring from front to back.

The technical reason (for those who love all the gory details) is that the last half of the DS moves the core thread in front of the working thread (that actually forms the DS). If you close the ring in this position, the core thread comes out of the front of the ring and can force the last DS to crumple and even force it not to slike anymore.

[Judith Connors]

RODS (reverse order double stitch) can be done on either side of your lace, depending where you are working. The shuttle still goes through the ring from front to back.
Judith.

[emkay]

I have appreciated this discussion and the idea of "posting the shuttle" was new to me -- so I tried it out and I have been converted! My rings close much easier and tighter. Thanks for the tip.

Peace, Mary Kay

[Little Bell]

Thankyou all for sharing this. I find it all interesting & helpful. Yes, I have taught myself how to tatt. I'm still learing & getting better all the time.
Blessings,
Little Bell

[Thimble Lady]

Thank you sooooooooo much for these tips. I really need all the help I can get since I am new tatter and this board is my only source of information and help.

[Liyarra]

It is nice to know the technicalities of tatting and use them if you think it will improve your tatting and if that is the direction you want to go.
Personally I think the tips Patty gave are great.
But as I have said before - if it makes you frustrated or changes your attitude towards tatting in a negative way - simply don't so it!!! I gave up tatting for ages cos I tried to get too technical too soon.
It will come to you and even now 6 years later I am still having AHA!! moments and changing the way I do things. Tat for the love and the fun of it, experiment with new ideas and just take the bits that "work" for you.

[Liyarra]

Cindy - if you want to look closer at the stitch formations - get yourself some really thick cord, baling twine or ski rope type of stuff and just finger tat a couple of rings and chains using the different methods. You will see clearly the way the thread moves through each stitch without straining your eyes.
I have a 2 color cord model that I take to the class when I teach. On it are flipped and unflipped chain stitches, a row of properly flipped chain and then a ring that is done properly and lastly one that has unflipped stitch in it to show why it will not close. My own version of a tatting "anatomical model" LOL
I also learn to do other techniques with the cord so I can see for myself what is happening so I can better explain it later. These get added to the collection as I go.

[yarnplayer]

Something I tell beginners is, each time they sucessfully "flip" a ds, to pinch it between their thumb and forefinger (of left hand) while they are working on the next ds - so that it won't "unflip" itself on them (which tends to happen with new beginners).

This is meant to be only a help while they are learning. Pinching each ds is not needed at all for experienced tatters, who have acquired the knack of keeping good tension while tatting quickly.

Marilee
http://yarnplayertats.blogspot.com/

[Sonja]

I never heard of doing the shuttle trough the ring before closing. But I will try to see the diffence. Still I open my wrong rings. Most of time no problem

[Deann]

This is a new one for me also.

[coretta]

PattyD
I read this post before I was registered and then came back to it because of this:

"2. Post the shuttle when closing a ring"

I have never done this as I was never taught this technique. However, this weekend someone asked me to make a string of picot flowers. I saw the ones that she had previously got from a Tatter, her little flowers were so circular and mine only were if I pushed the ring closed with my thumb nail and still the picot petals had a break in them and of course they took on a roll of their own on the last picot. Sometimes I want a tear drop shaped ring but this time I certainly don't and this post is the answer. THANKS! It's so flat when closed and the petals come full circle with a little coaxing. I appreciate the "gorey details" because i am just like that.
Seriously, Thank you.