Ugly Josephine Knots...couldn't it be something complicated?

[mcoperryl@gmail.com]

Is there a secret for making attractive Josephine Knots? I am trying to make Mary Joseph Donohue's (Icela) Lace Petal Heart. The instruction line for the knots is:
JK 12 2nd halves of the ds only, made with the auxiliary thread, 2x more SLT. Then, Chain 8 ds.

I have done these knots before without them looking so terrible. After I fiddled with this a while I tried doing an edging with JK's and they look worse. They are the first half of the DS and I can't even get them to close completely.

[BlueDode]

mcoperryl:

If you can, try tatting these a bit more loosely that you usually tat; when closing the "Josephine" (I call them rings, not picots or knots) only tighten the shuttle thread AFTER you have gently twisted the twisty thing flat and have pinched it into the ring shape, with the beginning touching the end and the slack thread outside the pinch for the most part. Continue pinching lightly usuing your non-shuttle hand to keep it that way. Next drop the shuttle and pull the shuttle / core thread in a direction TANGENT (not perpendicular to the shape of the Josephine "ring". You can sometimes twist your non-shuttle hand away from the direction you are pulling the shuttle thread in order to snug it down.

Ask again if this is clear as mud, OK?

[mcoperryl@gmail.com]

Thank you so much. I am going to try it right now.

[mcoperryl@gmail.com]

It worked. Tomorrow I will try my edging and that will give me lots of practice. Now, do I need to follow the JK with some sort of stitch to lock it in place? If I do this correctly every time will it stay after I close?

[PattyD]

Yes, it will close, it's a ring! No locks required.

[mayflower]

I would like to add, since you have done JK's before without trouble, that if your thread is a bit stiff or kinky the stitches may be irregular and cause yucky rings. For instance, I have that problem more often with Cordonnet (though I love it) than with perle cotton.

I'll bet it's your thread's fault!

PS I think BlueDode did a great job of explaining.

[mcoperryl@gmail.com]

BlueDode was right, I was making everything too tight and now that you mention it I bet it is the thread too. Within the last month I have started to use Lizbeth size 40 thread. Could it be that Josie is too tight and Lizzie is just a little twisted?

[TeresaW]

Lizbeth does have a slightly tighter twist to it and it will kink sometimes. Also, because of the nature of the Josephine ring, it wants to twist around the core (or shuttle) thread.

With any ring ... but especially Josephine rings ... I find it really helps to keep the ring within your pinch as you close the ring. This usually a two-step process for me because I do drop the shuttle through the ring before I completely close the ring.

[MARIEJ]

Is there a secret for making attractive Josephine Knots? I am trying to make Mary Joseph Donohue's (Icela) Lace Petal Heart. The instruction line for the knots is:
JK 12 2nd halves of the ds only, made with the auxiliary thread, 2x more SLT. Then, Chain 8 ds.

I have done these knots before without them looking so terrible. After I fiddled with this a while I tried doing an edging with JK's and they look worse. They are the first half of the DS and I can't even get them to close completely.

Try doing the 2nd half of the ds. I also guide the stitch with the tip of my shuttle as I bring it down to the other half stitches. This seems to help keep the half stitches EVEN. I also find using the 2nd half of the ds(rather than the 1st half) closes easier and more evenly.

[mcoperryl@gmail.com]

I have been doubly blessed in my tatting journey. I asked in this forum for help in finding Helma Seipmann books in English and thanks to those who gave me pointers, the book has already arrived from HHands. Another question of mine was how to correct issues with JRs. Helma's instructions for a JR include beginning with a DS which is not counted. She says that this will make the JR lie flatter and not twist. In addition to the other suggestions I am going to try this.

[Ridgewoman]

I have nothing to add to the thread; except I now use Jane Eborall's way of doing JK's. I, too, use the U (2nd part) stitch. However, thanks for all the tips because the edging I'm working on (a Mary Konier edging) is basically ring, JK within ring, and chains. This edging is for my granddaughter's wedding headpiece. A lot of really good advice here, as usual! hugs, BJ:thmbup: