Understanding patterns...

[DaisyPond]

I'm new to needle tatting and I can do double stitches and rings and chains. But that's it!
I can't follow a pattern. I don't know where to go, what direction or anything. Even simple patterns are puzzling to me.
Can anyone advise?

[Kersti]

YOu may find written patterns are easier to follow - you start at the first line and follow the steps as you're told.

[Judy]

Welcome Daisy, I'm a needle tatter, too. After rings and chains, you need to do simple joins. ... if you've got those, then you're ready for some simple edging patterns. Many of the diagrams don't tell you where to start. The general rules are that you will be going clockwise around the designs, and you start from the center and work to the outside. Look for a simple "wreath" pattern that has rings and chains and joins. I'll see if I can find one here at In T. and edit this when I do to add the link. if you don't have "joins" down yet, let us know and we'll get you past that.

http://www.intatters.com/showthread.php?4397-Just-started-out&highlight=beginner+pattern For starters.
http://www.intatters.com/showthread.php?5673-help-with-pattern-please! from the Needle Tatting Forum page.

Kersti's idea is good. If you have a particular pattern that you want to do... a shamrock by St. Pat's day, an egg shape, or butterflies, .. Its easier to walk you through a particular pattern than trying to generalize too much. Most of our member patterns have both written directions and diagrams or photos.

[Ireneho]

I'm new to needle tatting and I can do double stitches and rings and chains. But that's it!
I can't follow a pattern. I don't know where to go, what direction or anything. Even simple patterns are puzzling to me.
Can anyone advise?

You and me!! I don't read patterns either I just follow the photos or charted diagrams. Charted diagrams are easier to read than a block of text, if you are looking at buying books.

[Maureen L]

" Charted diagrams are easier to read than a block of text, if you are looking at buying books."

I'm in the other corner on this issue - I always prefer text! - but have come to appreciate a diagram or picture also. Jane Eborall always gives both in her designs, that's why I love them so much.

[Ireneho]

I've always found pictures easier to follow. I am a visual person, I learn faster by watching others than I do sitting and reading.

[Catriona]

Many of the diagrams don't tell you where to start. The general rules are that you will be going clockwise around the designs, and you start from the center and work to the outside.


I always end up going anti-clockwise round a visual pattern assuming it is always reversed worked between rings and chains. I always think of rings as the front and chains as the back which is why it goes this way. I prefer patterns that have both the visual pattern and supporting text but i have no problem with text only patterns if there is a photo of the finished item.

I've converted one old pattern from the long hand text into a visual design with simpler text. I find is easier if the pattern has each element on a different line whereas old patterns just have it all jammed together so they can fit it into a smaller space.

Daisy, you might be over thinking it, trying to look at the whole pattern and trying to figure out what it should look like complete. try just doing the first line of the pattern and see what you get, then do the next one, then the next and so on. It seems like an obivous thing to suggest but if you don't worry about what the thing should look like and just follow the instructions you should find it all comes together as it should. Jjust make sure you pay attention to where is says to reverse work or not to reverse work between elements as this is where you are most likely to make the pattern go the wrong way.

[RandaGray]

Catriona mentioned making the patterntext more simple... I do that with most any pattern I work anymore, & find my mistakes (due to reading the pattern wrong) have decreased. Once you learn to read a pattern, or even to read a diagram, it might help to do that as well. We all have our own way of writing things, & sometimes it's easier to take the time to do it beforehand! :)

[TiaLD77]

Older patterns I try to re write in the "Short hand Method" (R 4-4-4CLR) for my own benefit. I had a heck of a time understanding Diagrams at first since many do not give you an indication as to when to Reverse Work,or rather Do Not Reverse work, shuttle joins etc.
Now I am like many others , A diagram is OK as long as there is some written explanation. It Just takes a little time.

[Sherongb]

I had a heck of a time understanding Diagrams at first since many do not give you an indication as to when to Reverse Work,or rather Do Not Reverse work, shuttle joins etc.
Now I am like many others , A diagram is OK as long as there is some written explanation. It Just takes a little time.

One way to know when to and when not to reverse work with a diagram is to look at the curves of the elements. Are the curves of the elements going in the same direction? If so you don't reverse work. If not then you need to reverse work. To me the words 'reverse work' can also be stated as 'change the direction of the curve'.

Look at a piece you have made. The curve of a ring goes in one direction and the curve of the chain goes in a different direction. Look at a chain that looks more like an inchworm than a long slow curve, The work was reversed (by switching shuttles) at several points to have the chain curve in differing directions to get that inchworm (or S) shape. Look at a piece with a floating ring, a ring sitting on top of the chain. See how the curves on both the ring and the chain go in the the same direction? You didn't reverse work between them. A split ring is a 'special circumstance' - it's one ring with a curve going in each direction, again you switch shuttles to get the curves going in the opposite directions.

It does take practice and training your mind to think this way but it works. You get the practice and training from looking at tatting and seeing how it flows, looking at diagrams and seeing how they flow.

And yes I am of the school that doesn't need RW to be written after each element. But it's not a place I was at when I started tatting. All I ask is that the designer be consistant within the pattern.

[BlueDode]

DaisyPond:

Congratulations on your new skills!

I would recommend tatting from patterns written for needle tatting at first, to minimize the "shock" of all the lingo.

"Reverse Work" and "Do not Reverse Work" concepts can be tricky at first, but it is important to understand the effect of these terms on patterns -- Sherongb describes this in her post.

Some thoughts:

I would recommend "screening" patterns to start with:

1. For written patterns, there needs to be a "key" to explain abbreviations used. If not, you are tatting at your own risk and some of the lingo can matter: photos of the finished work can help you figure it out, maybe.

2. I would go for patterns that have a CLEAR picture of the finished tatting pattern so that you can look at it and puzzle it out if needed.

3. For some visual patterns, if they are confusing, make a copy of the pattern, enlarging or shrinking it to the approximate size of your tatting. Then you can place your work on top of it to see where you are at any time in your tatting. I've been tempted on some patterns to copy them on clear plastic sheets so I can "reverse work" on the pattern, too, but I haven't done it yet -- I've been close at times.

4. READ the written pattern first. Follow or trace the working path of the visual pattern noting joins, reverse work, etc. If you understand the pattern, you can probably tat it.

5. Pay attention: more advanced techniques are sometimes used in patterns: split chains, split rings, maltese, roll tatting, cluny leaves, and there are others: try searching InTatters or search for documents and video on the web or look for books that explain these techniques in needle tatting -- Rozella Linden's books (nom de plume for Ruth Perry) come to mind, and there are others.

6. Shuttle tatting versus needle tatting patterns. Shuttles and needles are tools used to accomplish basically the same thing in different ways. That said, some techniques are easy with one and incredibly clumsy/awkward with the other. If a more advanced technique seems complicated, pick another pattern. When you read and follow the pattern first, you can see this coming.

7. Edgings that have repeats and relatively simple structure, motifs formed from repeats, and simple forms (some hearts, clovers, leaves, etc., come to mind) are good places to start if you need to build skills and confidence. If you can find small scope patterns that introduce a new, more advanced technique, try it: you have little at risk on a small project.

Good luck!

[Ireneho]

Also to add, needle and crochet tatting produces a bigger stitch, shuttle tatting produces a smaller stitch.

Oh and Finger tatting produces a much smaller stitch than shuttle.

You can try both needle and shuttle tatting with same size thread, you will see the difference.

[Judy]

A caution about choosing a pattern: Beware those that are JUST strings of numbers and dashes. If you think a pattern is complicated because it has all those words there .... WRONG.... try baking a cake with only the ingredients list. Takes lots of experience to do anything with that recipe. Usually the more words the easier it is to do, especially for beginners. The words explain to you what is going on and advise you on how to handle things, like "reverse" or do not reverse. We're here to help you once you've picked a pattern, so please do ask.

[Ireneho]

Learn Needle Tatting is a good book. It has color photos and easy to do patterns.

[DaisyPond]

Gosh, thank you all so much. I really do appreciate your help. I may take a while to get this sorted but I am determined to master it. The talk of reversing work is now puzzling me. Am I right in thinking that after a chain you must reverse the work to close it through the loop, and if that is the case, do you have to start the next ring or chain from that reversed side or turn it back to the original side?
And what if a pattern says nothing about reversing work?

[PattyD]

Here's the deal about reversing work. "Normal" tatting is divided into two sides by the core thread. The DS of the ring and the DS of the chain are on the outside and on the opposite sides of the core thread. The ring and chain DS are upside down from each other. The reverse work is so that you can form both the ring and the chain DS in the same direction: from left to right.

Ring DS nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn
Core ------------------------------------------
Chain DS.........................uuuuuuuuuuuuuuu

If you didn't reverse work, your would work rings left to right and chains from right to left. Not impossible, but definitely mind bending.

Get a big black marker and make a big lower case n on the left hand side of the paper. Flip the paper from bottom to top. Now, on the right hand side of the paper make a big lower case U. If you put the paper up to a bright light you will see 2 n's on the side where you wrote the n and on the other side you will see 2 u's. In both cases the image you can see through the paper from the letter on the other side is backwards, but the arch of both the n and the u are on the same side and the open ends are on the same side.

[Shuttle Tatting] This is not obvious when making a ring, but there really are 2 threads, both the core thread and the working thread, but they are connected and when more working thread is required, core thread is pulled through the completed work and becomes working thread.

So, back to the original question. Where do you reverse? The simplest answer is between every change from a ring to a chain or a chain to a ring.

Last point: Reversing is an operation that is head over heels. The top becomes the bottom and the bottom becomes the top. In needle tatting, the DS are more obvious about changing sides.

[Judy]

In needle tatting, the reverse is performed by turning the piece over right to left, as though it were a page in a book you were reading (not Hebrew... they work "back to front". ) I'm currently working a pattern from Jon. Its a coaster/jar cover, and there's a spot where the chain must curve Away from the row of rings, so it doesn't have a change of direction. Sometimes I skip the shoelace-reverse work and have no knot, and sometimes I have to double-tie to get the ball thread on the left.
My way to work out where you need reverses (as separate from where you need a tie): You need to get your head around clockwise and counter clockwise. Consider the difference between the number 6, and the letter S. To tat the 6, you tat the circle first, going COUNTER clockwise, then the top tail -- like a chain. It is tatted clockwise. Now, consider the S: You can't do it without turning it over.. You can tat it as a Smooth Z, starting at the lower right. You'll be tatting clockwise. When you get to the middle of the back side of the S, you need to Stop, switch , tie, put in a series of half stitches, or something to allow you to begin tatting in a counterclockwise direction.

[Ireneho]

Here's an easy way, I do this to remember for shuttle tatting. Ring is right way up, chain is upside down.

[BlueDode]

Here's an easy way, I do this to remember for shuttle tatting. Ring is right way up, chain is upside down.

"Reverse work" chains are upside down; "Do Not Reverse" chains are right side up. When doing tatting so the double stitches are the same on both sides, when you reverse the work (turn it up side down) you also need to reverse the order you are tatting 1/2 stitches.

[janet6567]

When using written patterns, I place them on a magnatic board and place a magnetic ruler under the line I am following so that I dont' skip a line, and I move the ruler down as I go. It certainly reduces the "retro-tatting" I have to do.

[Flia]

I can't read graphs at all and I practically always rewrite patterns for any craft. Each instruction gets it's own row, in my own words, and unfamiliar abbreviations are written out every time. I also edit pictures with close ups when possible.

As for joins I don't read the RW or DNRW until after I've done the join.
Turn, knot, turn back, then read the rest.
I've come across a few errors on the RW and DNRW so now I always look at the picture before turning.

[Ireneho]

Actually, I don't like nor do very often, the Do not reverse chains. They look odd to me, facing the wrong way! A small project its ok, but not an entire edging, doily etc.

Tatting should be smooth and curvey in the right places! Also do not like block tatting.

Its just my preference. I don't mean anything bad by it.

I'm one of those crazy people...

It must be even! EVEN!!

Even or nothing!

[BlueDode]

I can't read graphs at all and I practically always rewrite patterns for any craft. Each instruction gets it's own row, in my own words, and unfamiliar abbreviations are written out every time. I also edit pictures with close ups when possible.

As for joins I don't read the RW or DNRW until after I've done the join.
Turn, knot, turn back, then read the rest.
I've come across a few errors on the RW and DNRW so now I always look at the picture before turning.
Flia, I too rewrite patterns, especially those older ones written continuously like a newspaper column, except there aren't even any paragraphs. This is a REALLY good way to be sure you understand the pattern before starting it.
Close-ups: I make enlarged copies for many patterns so that I can see them even in poor lighting. This can really help.

[BlueDode]

Actually, I don't like nor do very often, the Do not reverse chains. They look odd to me, facing the wrong way! A small project its ok, but not an entire edging, doily etc.

Tatting should be smooth and curvey in the right places! Also do not like block tatting.

Its just my preference. I don't mean anything bad by it.

I'm one of those crazy people...

It must be even! EVEN!!

Even or nothing!
Ireneho:

I'm 100% with you on the "it must be EVEN" and "It MUST lie FLAT unless it is supposed to be 3-D -- but I don't do many of those.

Block tatting: I've experimented with alternate ways of making those so they make me happy -- will try to remember and post when I do one of these again. I believe my favorite appearance of these involves using two shuttles and switching shuttles between chains; also, the tiny picot used for joining I put BETWEEN two halves of the last double stitch. Just had a thought: I don't believe I tried the Catherine Wheel joins here yet...hmmmmm...I'm finishing up a project and may want to pick one of these patterns up next. Plan to try Rosella Linden / Ruth Perry's "Balanced Double Stitch" to get more of a straight line in 'em instead of a straightened natural curve. Wonder if these blocks would be better formed as pie slices, to take advantage of the natural curves....hmmm....
URL to "Balanced Double Stitch" FYI: www.georgiaseitz.com/2008/ruthplongringchains.pdf (http://www.georgiaseitz.com/2008/ruthplongringchains.pdf)

I recall you are not fond of "round tatting" though I am. I have a very old pattern that turned a rosette (ring, chain, ring, chain, etc. with joins at adjacent picots on rings) into a tree shape with "Do Not Reverse Work" chains for the outline of the tree trunks breaking into and out of the rosettes. This way the round can be worked continuously, too.

Work with two shuttles OR use the shoelace trick (the first knot when you tie your shoes) if working with one shuttle and a ball, to get threads switched into the right positions as necessary to correct for the twist.

Crazy people are everywhere, thank goodness or we would all be bored.

[Ireneho]

I get bored after I do the 2nd row of tatting. Long term tatting isn't for me. My boredom meter is 1 week, if it takes me more than that, in any craft, it either ends up in the bin, I undo it or put it in the too hard box!

I like quick small motifs that I can play around with matching it up with a braid or wear straight away. My braids take me less than a week now.

[Judy]

Flia, Can you tell us what you would like to do? Have you seen one you would like to do? Choose a pattern or photo and we'll help you through the steps. Don't make it too small (sorry Ireneho) or you won't get enough practice as you go along. It takes practice to make all the rings the same size -- and chains the same length -- Thats's tension control. So pick a pattern and we'll be here to help one bit of directions and diagrams at a time. Save this thread and come back to all those posts above as a reference.. not all the things will make sense yet.

[Flia]

Flia, Can you tell us what you would like to do? Have you seen one you would like to do? Choose a pattern or photo and we'll help you through the steps. Don't make it too small (sorry Ireneho) or you won't get enough practice as you go along. It takes practice to make all the rings the same size -- and chains the same length -- Thats's tension control. So pick a pattern and we'll be here to help one bit of directions and diagrams at a time. Save this thread and come back to all those posts above as a reference.. not all the things will make sense yet.

I suppose this post was aimed at the thread starter :)