Need help with a French book

[Dantatter]

A couple of weeks ago a friend gave me the book "La Frivolite" by Josette Eveillard. The book is in French and unfortunately my knowledge of the language is not good enough to be able to read it but the patterns are diagrammed so I thought I would be OK. It is a book with some lovely doilies in it and I would love tatting some of them.
I have tatted a few things in the book and I have a problem because they bowl a lot. I did an oval doily and I don't think ironing will make it lie flat at all and I am about to throw it in the bin. I am almost done with a round one and that is not right either.
I have been thinking maybe it is written in another way than I am used to. In general I read a pattern like this 4-4-4 in this way: 4ds a space 4ds a space and 4 ds. Picots are the space (or the loop) which do not include any ds of it's own. But I know some use half a ds or a ds when they make a picot.
So if someone here have the book and is able to read the instructions on the first pages could you please, please tell me which way they have used. I have looked at the pictures but they are not accurate enough to help me.
Thank you very much in advance for any help you can give me, it will be appreciated very much.
Susanne

[Judy]

Haven't tried French, but the Italian mags were so georgous I couldn't resist. I made my own dictionary of likely terms== ring, picot, chain, turn, reverse, close, etc. Next step was a big dictionary with a simplified Eng/Ital/Eng section in the back. Then I tried some of the Italian words and wrote them down and did a match. The Italian usually goes 3d 4p (words meaning put between them) 4d p 3d. Since even English isn't consistent, I don't think French will be either. Last step, I found a friend who was from Sardinia and she couldn't tat, but said it sounded about right. I've had great success, so don't give up. Someone out there may have a website with a dictionary ready. The line above ends up 3-4-4-4-3; the second number is the count on picots the third is how many go between and the last one is the final group.

[PattyD]

Take a chance. It IS possible that ironing will help enough so you don't throw all your work in the trash. It's worth a try!

[Dantatter]

Judy, thanks for the info. Maybe I didn't express myself clearly enough. I do not have problems reading patterns with a list of translated words what I can not is read the entire pages of instructions in the front and a list of tatting words wont be enough help there. In the front of the book they should have explained how they do it.

Thanks PattyD, yes I will try ironing it before it goes to the bin. I have had doilies bowl before but this oval is definitely the worst ever. I just do not want to waste too much good threads on patterns that bowl this much.

Susanne

[Kersti]

This might help a little - http://translate.google.com/
I note that it does French to Danish as well as to English.

If that doesn't help, if you (or anyone else) can scan in the pages in question, my BF speaks French and my new flatmate *is* French so I should be able to help somehow!

[FlosAustralis]

Dantatter:
I speak french. If you need to translate some instructions, I have'nt problem to help you.

[Marty]

I have tatted a few things in the book and I have a problem because they bowl a lot. I did an oval doily and I don't think ironing will make it lie flat at all and I am about to throw it in the bin. I am almost done with a round one and that is not right either.
Susanne

The problem might be that your tension is tighter than the tension of the person who wrote the book. I find a lot of patterns where I have to regularly add one or two ds to a chain to get the pattern to come out flat. You might try soaking it in water then stretching it gently in your hands before ironing. Sometimes the water is enough to open the threads and allow them to stretch just a bit.

[BlueDode]

DanTatter / Suzanne:

Is there a tight row that tends to "bowl" things?

I did a large doily several years ago from a Coats and Clarks tatting pattern book and it had a "tight row" of chains (and no rings) in the middle of it that "bowled" the center. Pattern was in English, my native tongue, so it wasn't a language problem. I wondered at the time if the pattern was written by someone who didn't tighten up their chains after tatting them, but I don't know.

Instead of the bin ("file 13" in my parlance), I decided to do "tatting surgery": I "untatted" that row and retatted it with extra double stitches in the chains (I estimated how many I might need). Basic procedure: I cut the core thread and pulled it out of the double stitches; I had several shuttle thread joins to undo, too (Dora Young knots in my case). Using the old double stitch thread as a guide, I rethreaded new ball thread through the same places as I unthreaded the old double stitch thread. Then I retatted the chains, and because of the rethreading, the tatting auto-joined itself as I finished the row.

I could have added a couple more stitches, but hey, it layed much flatter and it could be blocked.

Not sure this will help or not.

Alternatively, could you determine where the "bowling" started and cut that part off, redesign it with added double stitches to the chains (estimate what you need).

Undoubtedly you will improve the flatness of the doily, even if it is not perfect.

BTW: in my case, I found a very similar pattern in a Japanese tatting book and it lay beautifully flat except a slight "volcano" in the center, which could be blocked out.

Live and learn: I watch for flatness as I go now: if it doesn't look like it will lay flat, I correct and add stitches to chains on the fly.

Good luck!

[Dantatter]

Thank you to all those who responded to my message here and for all the tips and tricks. :biggrin:
Susanne

[IcePrincess]

Dear Susanne,

here's with my first diagnose on the oval doily - It's not one row that is too tight (my thought at first, too), but it's actually too many rings in row two! I tatted up a shortened version to geht the hang of the pattern and this happened: (I folded the doily in half to be able to show)

http://www.intatters.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=195&stc=1&d=1257940438

As you easily can see, there are too many rings around the end in the second row and they start to make the whole thing bowl, because you don't get a half circle but almost three quarters! I'd try to leave out the three rings marked in red at each corner and see if the doily comes out better then.
The author must pull her rings extremely tight compared to her chains if the pattern works out for her.

By the way - her measures are crazy off, too. I used size 40 thread, as suggested and even though I haven't finished the last two rounds the pattern is only six and a half centimeters wide. The last row certainly won't double that.

[Dantatter]

Oh Julia I am so impressed by your work.
No wonder it does not work for me after I have read your explanation. I do tat very tight too (both chains and rings) but she must be even worse than I am if it works for her.
I look forward to hear what you think about it after a second try.
Thank you very much for the help,
Susanne

[BlueDode]

Ice Princess and Dantatter:

Thanks for the "hat trick" / "fold in half trick" idea to evaluate flatness or the lack thereof! I'll be putting it to good use as I try new patterns! Thank you!

[Maureen L]

I'm glad the problem is solved with your doily, Susanne - but it made me wonder just whose patterns you can trust?
I know, for example, that if I tat a pattern of Jane Eborall's, or Pam Palmer's, that it's going to work; other reliable patterns are those of Lyn Morton and Lindsay Rogers.
I am not a prolific tatter, but I discovered very early on, that many of the old patterns reprinted in the Dover books don't work as written.
I think we'll all be folding our doilies in half from now on, thanks to you, Ice Princess!
Such a shame about this particular pattern, the book looked so clear and inviting!
I still haven't found my copy, after the move.

[Christiane]

Hi Dan, I'm french and have this book in french, if you tell with what doily you have trouble, sure it's possible to go through