What did I do wrong

[frakira]

With the Reverse Riego Method, the mechanics of making the stitch are MUCH simpler. Less worry about getting the hand and thread positions right.

I totally agree.. At the first moment I am trying to teach slip & slide method (because I think it is faster and czech tatters prefer it), but when it doesn't work, I am switching to reverse riego method. I think there is no spase for understanding how the knot is realy done with slip & slide method and I think it is the most important thing.

[picotsnkeys]

I am so glad I found InTatters!

I come from a musical background where the skill and technique of making music often influences how good the music is. We spend hours perfecting technique so the music sounds good.

It's refreshing to find a creative group that doesn't obsess about how the knot is made. Hurrah!!!!

That said, I admire those who teach and can instruct using multiple techniques to form the same knot. You inspire me.
Melanie

[Elfiona]

Retired teacher here reminding myself that each person is an individual mix of learning modes... Watch, Listen, Small movement, whole body movement (think dance), Speak, Write, and SING, even... involving different parts of our brain. The more you can teach a lesson using as many modes as possible, the more they're apt to find one that works for them.. We can memorize the most impossible nonsense like abcde fghijk lmnop....when we sing. Mine is "needle on the knot".... over and over....

That is how my math teacher taught us trigonometry. There was a particular section that she made us memorize in chant (she insisted that it was the only way we would ever remember it). Everyone had to chant it together to learn (sin/cos, cos/sin, cos/cos, sin/sin). I don't exactly remember what we were doing with this combination, but I have always remembered the chant (she was right).

[Sonja]

I saw this method on a video of Jan Stavasz. The first years i did on a very roundawound way and I started with this and did it for years. Since the last year I changed to the usual way. I mix it now. If you are busy with the last thread it is more easier to do it on Riego's way, without shuttle, only the thread. With new tatters I start also with the Riego-way.

[GraceT]

I saw this method on a video of Jan Stavasz. The first years i did on a very roundawound way and I started with this and did it for years. Since the last year I changed to the usual way. I mix it now. If you are busy with the last thread it is more easier to do it on Riego's way, without shuttle, only the thread. With new tatters I start also with the Riego-way.

Yes, I've found the Riego method handy for finger tatting, or tatting with a flat bobbin of spare thread. It's also good for for the first half of a double-core SSSR, when you have to grab two shuttles and pass them through the loop. With Slip & Slide I had to tape the shuttles together, with Riego I don't have to.

[ergoxeira]

My advice for anyone teaching any physical skill is "be patient". Three hours is a very short time to master the rather complex series of movements necessary for tatting. Some people will pick it up right away; others will have the principle in their brains but will take a long time to get it to transfer to their fingers. Others just take longer for everything.

agree with you

[PattyD]

Well, after all this discussion, I have come to the conclusion that the Reverse Riego method refers to the order of the halves of the double stitch. Mlle. Riego's written works started by making the second half before the first half AND placing the picots between the halves of the DS (something like Jan Stawasz, but the halves are reversed). To my mind this is the only Reverse Riego method of anything. Not long after beginning to write about tatting and how it is done, Mlle. Riego moved to the first half first and the second half second. Now it is accurate to describe backside tatting as reverse Riego method because the 2nd half IS first and the 1st half IS second.

The Riego method of forming the DS itself (in whatever order the halves are made), is what is being called out as the Reverse Riego method; but nothing is actually reversed, the stitch is formed differently and can be easier to work in that method. The Riego method avoids having to wrap the shuttle thread around the right hand by laying the shuttle thread over the left hand and behind or to the left of the wrapped ball thread already there. There is no need for a loop around the shuttle hand in this case and I can see that this method could be a more manageable movement for some tatters. But I can't see that it is reversed; definitely different, but not reversed. Karen Cabrera tats in this way on youtube if you want to see an example.

It all comes down to the fact that the shuttle thread forms a loop around the working thread on the left hand and then passes the shuttle through the loop. The move is essentially an overhand knot. The flip transfers the overhand knot to the working ball thread and reverses the direction of the knot.

The Riego style of making the second half of the DS is bring the shuttle thread down across the loop of thread wrapped around the left hand and to enter the wrapped loop below the pinkie finger from back to front.

I was getting very confused. But this is my understanding now. I welcome any comments. (I Slip and Slide practically unconsciously, so I hadn't paid much attention to the discussions about the (Reverse???) Riego method. I don't think the Riego method of forming the DS stitches is the reverse of anything, just a different placement. The Rebecca Jones book shows about 7 different ways to approach forming the double stitch, including not flipping the DS. I have a hard time distinguishing one method from seven and calling it reverse.

[picotsnkeys]

I like your bottom line Patty: The knot doesn't care how it's made.

Tatting, being a visual art, is more forgiving in technique than, say, a sport. Technique can make or break the experience there!

I agree on three hours not being a long time to teach a complex series of movements. And in my novice teaching experience, time for the student to rest, practise on their own, and then work with you can be crucial. I am finding I much prefer to introduce tatting for an hour or so, then have the student do something else, and then come back together to see what has "stuck" and what movement the student grasps best.

I feel very fortunate that there is so much more information with videos and such out there for students. We are not dependent on one teacher's knowledge/experience to learn tatting. Hurrah! And a toast to sharing and discovering together:

Melanie

[GraceT]

I'm the one who's been happily flinging the term "Reverse Riego Method" around. I came to my understanding of it this way:
When I first learned tatting from the internet, I found slip & slide too difficult, and instead went with the tatting method I found here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=g_JGTCju4G8
It wasn't long before I realised that this lady was using a method that produced stitches facing the other way from the under-over/over-under method. So I switched my stitches round to get the ds to face the right way. Some months later, I found Karen Cabrera's video and discovered with a thrill that she was also doing them in reverse order! And then she told me that she learned it from a Cuban lady, who learned it from a French nun (if I recall correctly), and it was called the Reverse Riego Method. Karen, maybe you could comment on why you call it that? I am thinking from what PattyD says that there may be an older tradition of tatting in Cuba, perhaps.

[stringydogs]

I really think that tatting is a great way to define how each person learns. Some folks just don't translate what they see into how their hands should move. Others could never do it with out the demonstration.

Every time I come upon a design that is written out, I have to diagram it before I can tat it. Others do better reading the steps.

I remember reading about communicating with a hard-of-hearing person: Repeating the same phrase over and over is not helpful. If saying something twice does not work, change your wording. I have found this to work well.

I think teaching tatting is very much that way. If one method doesn't catch, try another. I believe y'all* have hit on the solution!

________
*Hey, I'm from the South