clovers still poor

[Deb13b]

Sorry for this newbie question ! No matter how much I do them, my clovers are rubbish. Very gappy. And the joining picots are always visible. I've tried tatting looser, tighter, tried a trick I saw on youtube where you do the 2nd half of a ds to pull it in tighter, which helps a bit, but doesn't work 100%.

It's such a simple thing but I can't seem to get them to look neat. Any tips would be much appreciated !
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[Lynn]

Don't be so hard on yourself, Deb. You're actually doing a pretty good job. Trefoils can be tricky. Joining picots are no bigger than bumps. There should be just barely enough room to wiggle your hook into it. That will almost always guarantee an invisible joining picot. The bottom is always going to be a bit "gappy", because you have three rings in a row. You can't pull all three rings close together at the bottom without totally warping the whole construction, which accounts for the small amount of bare thread at the bottom of a completed trefoil. However, there should not be a gap between adjacent rings. You seem to already know about making the second half stitch to snug the rings closer together. If you are already making the following ring as close as possible to the preceding one, then it may be you are tugging your ring too much after you close. You are right that it looks like a simple thing to do, but your fingers need to be convinced of that as much as your reason. So, keep practicing. It may help to do something else for a bit and come back to it with a fresh eye and rested fingers. After a couple more days, see if it doesn't look a bit better.
Oh, BTW, there are no silly questions. If you need to know, you need to ask. There are other newbies here who probably also need to know, so please feel free to ask anything you like.

[picotsnkeys]

I agree with Lynn....you're doing very well at learning. Just don't be too hard on yourself in the process. It's not as much fun to enjoy what others create when someone is unhappy. That being said:

This is the place to ask and question and ponder and crow and celebrate!

I look at trefoils as one of those design elements that doesn't live by the same rules. Yes, we try to keep the gaps at the base of the rings down (I love the term gapsosis for that.) Yes, we try to keep the joining picots small enough they are not readily visible. But, life happens. And when we come to a part of the lace where a trefoil is planned, we will have different challenges. The thread we use will be an influence, the individual skill level will be an influence, the purpose of the finished article will be an influence, and even the humidity at the time we close the ring will be an influence. (Ever try to pull thread through fingers influenced by a hot flash?)

So, celebrate that the rules can be different here. Continue to strive for what you envision, but take what comes and fly with it. I hope you'll continue to ask questions, but also to post pictures and updates of your progress. I enjoy looking at the old and discovering the new. No one invented new things because the old way worked. And I hope we continue to have new ideas in the world.

Melanie

[PattyD]

I'll be back later today, to try to help you get through this. I am going to try to make a video of an alternate way to wrap the ball thread around the pinkie.

[Sherongb]

First let me agree that your clovers/trefoils (the difference is one has all three rings the same size, the other has a larger center ring but I keep on getting them confused as to which is which, sorry) are not as bad as many I have seen and as some I have made. It's so much easier for us to see our problem areas than it is for others to see them, and non tatters just see something lovely.

Practice (without beating yourself up because they aren't perfect) is the best way to improve. Having said that here are a couple of tricks I have been taught over the years.

1. When starting the second and third ring lay the previous ring under the thread around your hand. This will allow you to start the next ring right next to the previous one the last stitch of one ring right next to the first stitch of the new ring, to snug the stitches up. It also helps to force the rings to curve.

2. When starting the chain after the three rings fold the rings so the first ring is sitting on top of the third ring. This brings the two threads right next to each other and will help to get rid of that bare thread space.

And again put the tatting down for a while when it's just not going right, have some chocolate, a warm bubble bath, a glass of wine, whatever will relax you and take your mind off the problem. Then later on, or the next day, come back refreshed and ready to try again. Don't force it when it's frustrating. Ask for tips and tricks when you need or just want help. We are glad to help you.

[Judy]

I just have a couple of thoughts to add to this discussion. Keep in mind that we're making LACE.... which means that there will be "holes" and bare places where there is no thread. If that clover base hole is bothering you and distracting you, by all means work on it, but also peruse those fancy photos in any tatting book you have and note that not every clover in those expensive volumes totally avoids gaposis. No one but a critic formally evaluating the piece will look at each tiny element. That clover base needs to not stick out and draw attention to itself. It needs to be in harmony with the other joins and direction changes in the overall look. Some other elements, like inconsistent tension across a piece is a problem for others or keeping picots even, also need practice. As for seeing the picots after a join, that's a design consideration. In some designs, the picots and their arrangement, even the ones used to join, are a planned part of the design.

[Loretta]

Sometimes using a down join rather than up join helps (pretty much do this for most of my tatting) and dropping the shuttle through the ring seems to reduce the gaps- for me.

[picotsnkeys]

dropping the shuttle through the ring

Is this the posting shuttle that I read about in places?
Melanie

[Loretta]

Picotsnkeys, I am not sure what the posting shuttle term is. It may be the name of the technique. I am fairly new to tatting and learned how to do it via videos- so I am not as voiced on the techniques -this is why this website is so wonderful.

I make a ring and the point where I am ready to close it, I put the shuttle (whatever type I am using) through the center of the ring from the top side.The shuttle is now on the back side of the ring as it is facing me. This seems to make the closure closer.

[Anke]

2. When starting the chain after the three rings fold the rings so the first ring is sitting on top of the third ring. This brings the two threads right next to each other and will help to get rid of that bare thread space.

That's a good trick!!! I never thought of folding - I just wiggle around...